Here's a question while we are talking about tyres, what would an insurance companies reponse be if you had an accident in winter with summer tyres on?
MyfirstV6
In the unhappy event that you are involved in an RTA it is common practice for the investigating officer to check the tread depth and general condition of tyres but I have yet to hear of a distinction being made between a Summer, Winter or All Season tyre. Maybe in your area they do ?
Insurers don't ask here even. Crazy but true. Accidents are not blamed on the tires but on road conditions. I get involved in a number of MVA claims where road conditions are said to be the cause. The state of the tires on some of these vehicles is incredible, but then so is the level of driving skill exhibited. I am merciless in my defence if these claims.
Jaguar fits all season tires to most models for Canada but the top sports models come with summer rubber only. These are not all weather tires. You will have an accident eventually driving in winter on summer tires and it will be an avoidable accident. You may believe it was due to road conditions. It won't be.
Jaguar fits all season tires to most models for Canada but the top sports models come with summer rubber only. These are not all weather tires. You will have an accident eventually driving in winter on summer tires and it will be an avoidable accident. You may believe it was due to road conditions. It won't be.
Over here you would be in deep trouble if the cause was due to the weather conditions i.e. snow or ice for example. Your insurance can refuse to pay your damage and there is a hefty fine, plus points.
I often wonder why people are prepared to take such risks in the winter, particularly if your residential area is hilly. One is risking the car, injury to oneself and family plus injury to third parties possibly involving children.
The answer is to calculate the amortisation aspect carefully taking into account that the summer tyres usage is virtually halved and can balance out the investment. One does not necessarily have to purchase a set of wheels and can simply have the tyres transferred if one is thinking to save costs or at least keep them down to a minimum.
I often wonder why people are prepared to take such risks in the winter, particularly if your residential area is hilly. One is risking the car, injury to oneself and family plus injury to third parties possibly involving children.
The answer is to calculate the amortisation aspect carefully taking into account that the summer tyres usage is virtually halved and can balance out the investment. One does not necessarily have to purchase a set of wheels and can simply have the tyres transferred if one is thinking to save costs or at least keep them down to a minimum.
I should imagine that legally here in the UK, providing your car complies with the road traffic act, you would not have a problem. There is no legislation for winter tyres to be fitted, therefore you are not breaking any law by driving on summer tyres in the winter. Please note I am talking from the legal aspect, the advisability of using winter tyres is a whole other discussion, and could be debated endlessly. I for one do not want to stop quicker on winter tyres if the car behind does not have winter tyres fitted, I would feel my rear end was exposed, especially the way the idiots tailgate whatever the weather. I say either make it mandatory for all vehicles or leave alone, personally I would rather it was mandatory. Phil
That's a funny way to look at it. There is not always someone behind you. And even then I'd prefer to be able to stop as quickly as possible if a small girl runs out in front of my car. Even if that means, I'm being hit from behind. I'd rather save a human life than the rear end of my car.
So you want manditory winter tyres. Have you checked the stopping distance of summer tyres with 7mm tread against winter tyres with 2mm tread? It's not the tyre that causes an accident it's the driver using a car beyond it's safe capability in the prevailing conditions.
If a child steps out into the road and you are going over 20 mph, need I say more.
If a child steps out into the road and you are going over 20 mph, need I say more.
Right, as this thread has gone far off the original OP's question, I am going to state that it is not illegal in the UK to use summer tyres all year round, so legally the insurance companies can not use that as an excuse, and leave it at that. Phil
Insurance companies have no need for Legal recourse. They will pay out or not in accordance with the policy detail that you have purchased. If you are worried read the policy booklet to see if it stipulates winter tyres. In addition they could say you have not taken sensible precautions to protect the car in winter. It could be a minefield but I am guessing you have nothing to worry about from responsible insurance companies and cannot recall ever reading about this as a problem.
Quite emotional responses, I have to observe.
Clearly in the EU, countries have their own laws regarding winter tyres, as I've already indicated.
I don't have to reiterate the advantages of the winter tyre recipe formula which has already been dealt with many times previously such as reduced braking distances, superior initial traction, superior road holding (all in snowy/slushy conditions) etc. etc.
I do have to to reply in one case, however, in that a winter tyre tread has to have at least 3/4 mms of tread left to be effective and in this case would be due for replacement.
Over here, if the guy behind you runs into your rear, for whatever reason, he is normally automatically fined and the insurance company will place the quilt squarely on him such as loss of no claims bonus in part etc.
As an added comment, I would not be surprised if the EU attempts to standardise on this theme one day, which will really get up many people's noses, I'll bet!!
Clearly in the EU, countries have their own laws regarding winter tyres, as I've already indicated.
I don't have to reiterate the advantages of the winter tyre recipe formula which has already been dealt with many times previously such as reduced braking distances, superior initial traction, superior road holding (all in snowy/slushy conditions) etc. etc.
I do have to to reply in one case, however, in that a winter tyre tread has to have at least 3/4 mms of tread left to be effective and in this case would be due for replacement.
Over here, if the guy behind you runs into your rear, for whatever reason, he is normally automatically fined and the insurance company will place the quilt squarely on him such as loss of no claims bonus in part etc.
As an added comment, I would not be surprised if the EU attempts to standardise on this theme one day, which will really get up many people's noses, I'll bet!!
Legal requirements for equipping your car are not directly connected to insurance coverage.
They are directly connected to legal liability for a road accident and that can trigger coverage issues.
If you are covered then your premium may be affected.
If coverage for your property damage is declined then the effect is more obvious.
They are directly connected to legal liability for a road accident and that can trigger coverage issues.
If you are covered then your premium may be affected.
If coverage for your property damage is declined then the effect is more obvious.
I found your replies most sensible, Bernard. What really perplexes me is that some owners are, it seems to me, quite prepared to risk an accident or even injuring/killing someone as a result of tyres that are unsuited to the winter conditions involving snow, slush or ice.
It has been proven, beyond all shadow of doubt, that a winter tyre will brake in a much shorter distance than a summer tyre in "winter" conditions (under 5°C). I'm talking about up to 20% more which could mean one ending up under the rear end of a truck.
Furthermore the cheap tyres on offer, manufactured in the far east mainly, are literally dangerous in wet or snowy conditions. I'm quoting from the last ADAC tests dated 2014 on winter tyres 15".
It has been proven, beyond all shadow of doubt, that a winter tyre will brake in a much shorter distance than a summer tyre in "winter" conditions (under 5°C). I'm talking about up to 20% more which could mean one ending up under the rear end of a truck.
Furthermore the cheap tyres on offer, manufactured in the far east mainly, are literally dangerous in wet or snowy conditions. I'm quoting from the last ADAC tests dated 2014 on winter tyres 15".
On ice the difference is more like 100%. A studless winter tire will stop in half the distance of a summer tire on glare ice.
In the UK performance in wet and icy snow should be the primary criterion, and certainly not insurance coverage issues.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=116
In the UK performance in wet and icy snow should be the primary criterion, and certainly not insurance coverage issues.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=116
The average high temperature in England in its coldest months (January/February) is 7.1C. The average low temperature in those months is 1.2C.
So the average driver in England during the two coldest months will be driving in above freezing temperatures at worse (night), and typically at above 7C temperatures during the day, 7C being the crossover point where a summer tire will typically outperform a writer tire, even when cold.
Those are the worse months. So if you live in close to the average climate of England, investing in winter tires is more of a nicety, than a necessity.
And if you believe the global warming bugaboo, temperatures will be 2-8C warmer by mid century anyway.
So, unless you live in the northern part of the country and must go when it is unusually cold or snows, forget about winter tires, don't drive when there is frozen precipitation, make sure you warm up your tires (all it takes is a few 30MPH to 5MPH firm decelerations) at the beginning of every drive.
Problem solved. If your insurance company is stupid enough to ever give you trouble, call your local politician, call a press conference and sue the S%#$ out of them.
So the average driver in England during the two coldest months will be driving in above freezing temperatures at worse (night), and typically at above 7C temperatures during the day, 7C being the crossover point where a summer tire will typically outperform a writer tire, even when cold.
Those are the worse months. So if you live in close to the average climate of England, investing in winter tires is more of a nicety, than a necessity.
And if you believe the global warming bugaboo, temperatures will be 2-8C warmer by mid century anyway.
So, unless you live in the northern part of the country and must go when it is unusually cold or snows, forget about winter tires, don't drive when there is frozen precipitation, make sure you warm up your tires (all it takes is a few 30MPH to 5MPH firm decelerations) at the beginning of every drive.
Problem solved. If your insurance company is stupid enough to ever give you trouble, call your local politician, call a press conference and sue the S%#$ out of them.
I have to admit to not comprehending your thread text, Piker, which confused me completely. You have generalised, assuming that it doesn't snow down south which is sadly completely incorrect. I also find your formulation rather aggressive for my particular taste and borders on the facebook, twitter jargon class of written English which I do feel does not belong on the Jaguar forum site. I assume from the way you spell tyres and commence sentences with 'so', you are not English, as Jagular has already surmised?
With respect, may I enquire how much experience you actually have with the winter tyres you have mounted on your car(s) or are you simply theorising?
I recall driving, one winter, in Kent on a business trip and the snow was terrible with cars stuck everywhere on the inclines. I sailed past the tail backs in my Merc. because of the winter tyres,
obviously, and was the object of many envious looks from the desperate drivers unable to move.
With respect, may I enquire how much experience you actually have with the winter tyres you have mounted on your car(s) or are you simply theorising?
I recall driving, one winter, in Kent on a business trip and the snow was terrible with cars stuck everywhere on the inclines. I sailed past the tail backs in my Merc. because of the winter tyres,
obviously, and was the object of many envious looks from the desperate drivers unable to move.
Average temperatures are irrelevant. Indeed, on no day is the average temperature actually experienced except possibly as the temperature rises and then again as it falls.
Anyone who has lived in the UK for even a few days would realize that there is no such thing as English weather across the country. North Americans often have no idea how variable weather can be over the British Isles, or indeed over much of Western Europe.
Anyone who has lived in the UK for even a few days would realize that there is no such thing as English weather across the country. North Americans often have no idea how variable weather can be over the British Isles, or indeed over much of Western Europe.
I'm somewhat surprised and a bit perplexed at your thread input, Piker, which I feel generalises and avoids the specific areas in the England/Scotland, even Ireland and Europe, for that matter, where snow is a relevant regular winter condition to be contended with.
Warming up a summer tyre will not be of any help in snow slush or ice, by the way, because of its rubber make up formula.
I recall, years ago, making a business trip to the Uk in the winter and being driven around by my sales representative. We had to go up north to Newcastle and the weather suddenly deteriorated. The A1 was covered in snow and the car was all over the place trying to get back down south. In addition the visibility through the windscreen was terrible because my chap did not have "antifreeze" in his washers so they froze solid.
Quite frankly, I became jolly nervous until we hit London where conditions were more acceptable.
If I were living "up north," I'm fairly sure I would have winter tyres mounted on my Jaguar for purely safety reasons alone.
During the war we were evacuated from London to the Little Hulton/Bolton area and I can recall much snowfall then, as a child.
It snowed here a bit last night (just a smattering with ice rain underneath and is deadly, by the way), which has been mentioned in another thread, and I can say that I'm relieved to have my winter tyres on both cars.
Warming up a summer tyre will not be of any help in snow slush or ice, by the way, because of its rubber make up formula.
I recall, years ago, making a business trip to the Uk in the winter and being driven around by my sales representative. We had to go up north to Newcastle and the weather suddenly deteriorated. The A1 was covered in snow and the car was all over the place trying to get back down south. In addition the visibility through the windscreen was terrible because my chap did not have "antifreeze" in his washers so they froze solid.
Quite frankly, I became jolly nervous until we hit London where conditions were more acceptable.
If I were living "up north," I'm fairly sure I would have winter tyres mounted on my Jaguar for purely safety reasons alone.
During the war we were evacuated from London to the Little Hulton/Bolton area and I can recall much snowfall then, as a child.
It snowed here a bit last night (just a smattering with ice rain underneath and is deadly, by the way), which has been mentioned in another thread, and I can say that I'm relieved to have my winter tyres on both cars.
No worries boys and girls. In a few years, with global warming, you'll be all driving convertibles with the top down in the winter watching the girls in bikini strolling down central London to the ocean front which should be right around Hyde Park Castle.
In the meantime, by all means, buy lots of winter tires, in Southern England, if checking the forecast and staying in or taking another vehicle 2 or 3 times a year is too much trouble.
Over here in much colder and variable New ENGLAND, we have three cars. One on winter tire, one on all seasons, one on summer tires - all see regular use, chosen based on the weather outside and the desired fun quotient. And on dry, above 0C days, the summer tires (once warmed up) have by far the most traction and shortest stoping distances (it is not even close).
Feel free to re-tweet - it is that app with the blue bird
P.S. My lawyer asked me to add that "If you don't buy winter tires in the winter you likely will instantly die."
In the meantime, by all means, buy lots of winter tires, in Southern England, if checking the forecast and staying in or taking another vehicle 2 or 3 times a year is too much trouble.
Over here in much colder and variable New ENGLAND, we have three cars. One on winter tire, one on all seasons, one on summer tires - all see regular use, chosen based on the weather outside and the desired fun quotient. And on dry, above 0C days, the summer tires (once warmed up) have by far the most traction and shortest stoping distances (it is not even close).
Feel free to re-tweet - it is that app with the blue bird
P.S. My lawyer asked me to add that "If you don't buy winter tires in the winter you likely will instantly die."
The bottom line would be that its the drivers responsibility to drive in a manner suitable for the conditions.
So braking distances, gaps between vehicles and so on.....ie the police report would be the telling part.
The whole ' Driving with due care' etc can include using winter tyres if they are best suited to conditions but no matter what the worst that would happen is a reduced pay out as in the UK the law doesn't require the use of winter tyres and as long as the vehicle is otherwise roadworthy then thats that.
It like any claim....if they prove you could have done something different to change the outcome then the claim is reduced but they still pay up.
So braking distances, gaps between vehicles and so on.....ie the police report would be the telling part.
The whole ' Driving with due care' etc can include using winter tyres if they are best suited to conditions but no matter what the worst that would happen is a reduced pay out as in the UK the law doesn't require the use of winter tyres and as long as the vehicle is otherwise roadworthy then thats that.
It like any claim....if they prove you could have done something different to change the outcome then the claim is reduced but they still pay up.
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