I've owned my 2.7 diesel for just over a month now but I believe on start up exhaust fumes are entering my car. I have checked this out with a carbon monoxide alarm but the alarm doesn't sound. Has anyone else had similar problems with fumes? :roll:
Exhaust fumes in my car
mcclown1
21 - 40 of 111 Posts
Hi – Sorry about the delay.
The good news is that you can see if there is a problem fairly easily. Get the car up on ramps / axle stands, removed the front under tray (6 bolts). The cats (wide section in the exhaust) are mounted vertically on either side of the gearbox. At the top of the Cats there is a 90 degree elbow, At the end of the elbow is the flexi joint and flange that bolts to the back of the turbo flange. The flexi joint is covered by a wire gasket. If the wire gasket and surrounding area (heat shield) is black with soot then the flexi is leaking..
Now, removing the cats is awkward – like every job it’s about having the correct tools! The cats are fixed to the car in 3 places and have 2 electrical sensors. First is an exhaust clamp between the Cat and DPF – very easy to remove. Second is a bracket around the cat – 3 bolts, also easy to remove but you will need a socket with extension bar. Before you remove these 3 bolts make sure you support the cat so all the weight isn’t on the flexi joint. Third, and very awkward, are the three nuts which clamp the turbo and cat flange together. You will need a few long socket set extension bars and two universal joints. Its impossible to get a spanner in there… Fortunately they aren’t very tight, in fact on TOPIX it doesn’t even give a torque, just “Loosely tighten”. Its well worth a look on TOPIX by the way.
When you put the Cats back make sure they are perfectly orientated, they must be perfectly vertical and exactly 90 degrees to the turbo – As bad as the flexi design is I think poor installation was partly the cause in my car, they were not mounted perfectly vertical, this puts excess strain on an already very poor flexible joint. I didn’t replace the flexi – it had split at the flange so just had a it re-welded to the flange. 5 min job once the things were off the car!!
So in summary the fault was caused, like most things in life, by numerous minor problems – Bad design, a poor engineering solution, poor detail manufacture (welding) and poor installation (not straight). The result – busted flexi…
The good news is that you can see if there is a problem fairly easily. Get the car up on ramps / axle stands, removed the front under tray (6 bolts). The cats (wide section in the exhaust) are mounted vertically on either side of the gearbox. At the top of the Cats there is a 90 degree elbow, At the end of the elbow is the flexi joint and flange that bolts to the back of the turbo flange. The flexi joint is covered by a wire gasket. If the wire gasket and surrounding area (heat shield) is black with soot then the flexi is leaking..
Now, removing the cats is awkward – like every job it’s about having the correct tools! The cats are fixed to the car in 3 places and have 2 electrical sensors. First is an exhaust clamp between the Cat and DPF – very easy to remove. Second is a bracket around the cat – 3 bolts, also easy to remove but you will need a socket with extension bar. Before you remove these 3 bolts make sure you support the cat so all the weight isn’t on the flexi joint. Third, and very awkward, are the three nuts which clamp the turbo and cat flange together. You will need a few long socket set extension bars and two universal joints. Its impossible to get a spanner in there… Fortunately they aren’t very tight, in fact on TOPIX it doesn’t even give a torque, just “Loosely tighten”. Its well worth a look on TOPIX by the way.
When you put the Cats back make sure they are perfectly orientated, they must be perfectly vertical and exactly 90 degrees to the turbo – As bad as the flexi design is I think poor installation was partly the cause in my car, they were not mounted perfectly vertical, this puts excess strain on an already very poor flexible joint. I didn’t replace the flexi – it had split at the flange so just had a it re-welded to the flange. 5 min job once the things were off the car!!
So in summary the fault was caused, like most things in life, by numerous minor problems – Bad design, a poor engineering solution, poor detail manufacture (welding) and poor installation (not straight). The result – busted flexi…
It might not NEED cats / DPFs to met the regs but it certainly has a DPF (see the forum for all the DPF probs). I cant be certain it has a Cat but I would certainly expect so.
Joined
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319 Posts
Is the Cats problem, when observed, the result of age or mileage? Would any of those who have experienced the problem be kind enough to record their approximate mileage when first noticed. Have any low mileage owners with 2.7D vehicles in the 3 to 4 years old age group had similar negative experiences with their Cats. Mine has done 21000 miles in coming up for 4 years (Mar 12) and so far no problem.
Is driving style a factor or is it all down to poor engineering? If any victim of the syndrome gets cross with this question I will fully appreciate their feelings and apologise in advance.
Is driving style a factor or is it all down to poor engineering? If any victim of the syndrome gets cross with this question I will fully appreciate their feelings and apologise in advance.
G
Guest
·Brilliant information thanks very much
Alfie
G
Guest
·Good point any answers would be welcome, mine is nearly 4yrs old and has 16.500mls on it and no probs yet.
Alfie
G
Guest
·Thanks for the info, done that today, no sooty stuff apparent. September 2008 car 35k miles.
If disaster strikes the cat(s) will be coming off and welded up or flexy bits renewed as required, I'm not buying new ones that's for sure.
I bought mine used about a year ago, it´s an early production 2,7D, and got a 24000 kms/24 mnth additional warranty from the seller. Just had it in to check for warranty problems with local Jaguar dealer, and guess what: the diesel exhaust smell in the car when stationary comes from two cracked flexible joints to the cats. I assume this will be covered by the extra warranty, but I too would like some feedback from Jaguar on this. 120000 kms and almost four years is no acceptable lifetime for a cat!
Joined
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219 Posts
Well, I have an update. I visited the Jaguar dealer this week for a little practical matter and brought the cat-issue to the attention of the technical service guys. They responded that they had their first XF cat repair at the very moment I was there. They showed me the report that was lying on their desk with the cost details. It costed around 1000 euro's and I believed them that it was their first issue with it, by the way they responded to my subject. They told me that the driver had passengers in his car who smelt a little gasonline in the car, very little which he couldn't smell himself as he was used to it apparently. They discovered the black heat shield as described above and had to replace the unit, they thought that the leaking was from place where the flexible joint was attached to the cat, at the ring/sealing, a little burst at the ring. I told him about this Jaguar forum thread and info from an engineer expert about the kind of weak construction in his opinion. The service guys told me that there was no official recall/update about this matter from Jaguar UK, but that they will check the XF cars they have in service themselves to be sure and will do that with at the next service moment with my XF in February. I don't smell any weirds in my XF, but I don't have a very sensitive nose... ;-)
My suggestion to remove the cat and not replacing it if there is an issue with cat was not so easy according to my dealer. There are sensors before and after the cat who are feeding the engine computer with data. Removing a cat means reprogramming the engine system which is not something a dealer is able to do.
My suggestion to remove the cat and not replacing it if there is an issue with cat was not so easy according to my dealer. There are sensors before and after the cat who are feeding the engine computer with data. Removing a cat means reprogramming the engine system which is not something a dealer is able to do.
In answer to the question above mine made it to 55k miles.
Bit more info, I would be cautious of dealers saying they have never seen this / no idea what you’re on about... There is a technical bulletin on topix about it.. Specifically mentions cracked flexis, and its dated well over 12 months ago!! I find it quite insulting that the dealers think ‘us owners’ are too stupid to look on topix and read... If I were a dealer/ jaguar customer services, I would expect Jaguar owners to be at least of average intelligence... engineers, doctors, lawyers, teachers etc...
My local dealer also said they hadn’t seen it before however a fellow ‘forum goer’ told me he had the cats replaced at the same dealer only a few months before!!– dealer response... “oh yeah now we remember” – funny that... such a unusual fault that managed to slip their mind...
Clearly Jaguar are well aware of it, and it is common – hence the bulletin. Fortunately for Jaguar it doesn’t usually occur inside 3 years and customer service is not their forte. I pushed for Jaguar to repair the car – they offered a small contribution which considering the circumstances (I found the fault while the car was under warranty but jag said ‘no fault sir’) I was astonished. This meant now the car was out of warranty and I would need to part with huge amount of cash as Jag will only replace, not fix the cats. I refused. I was not prepared for jaguar to profit from this problem.
If I was cynical I would say the flexis have deliberately been made weak/poor so they will fail eventually – unethical on so many levels it’s untrue. Either that or the engineering is just terrible and nobody spotted it. Its hard to say which is worse to be honest...
Anyway I’m 26 – I have my whole car future ahead of me. None of which will involve a jaguar again, and I love British brands... Don’t get me wrong, I was lucky, I’m able to fix the car myself for virtually nothing and at no point was it “off the raod”... but that’s not the point. I would love a conversation with the customer relations director – in fact should you happen to read this PM me.
Jaguar – “Beautiful design, poor engineering”
To name a few examples..
Flexis, Diff, Keys, discs and pads (are they actually made from recycled tin cans??), gear selector module, boot opener, boot loom, fuel flap, air con pipes, auto wipers... the list is endless – ALL are BASIC faults which a GCSE kid doing engineering could have fixed at concept design phase!!
Bit more info, I would be cautious of dealers saying they have never seen this / no idea what you’re on about... There is a technical bulletin on topix about it.. Specifically mentions cracked flexis, and its dated well over 12 months ago!! I find it quite insulting that the dealers think ‘us owners’ are too stupid to look on topix and read... If I were a dealer/ jaguar customer services, I would expect Jaguar owners to be at least of average intelligence... engineers, doctors, lawyers, teachers etc...
My local dealer also said they hadn’t seen it before however a fellow ‘forum goer’ told me he had the cats replaced at the same dealer only a few months before!!– dealer response... “oh yeah now we remember” – funny that... such a unusual fault that managed to slip their mind...
Clearly Jaguar are well aware of it, and it is common – hence the bulletin. Fortunately for Jaguar it doesn’t usually occur inside 3 years and customer service is not their forte. I pushed for Jaguar to repair the car – they offered a small contribution which considering the circumstances (I found the fault while the car was under warranty but jag said ‘no fault sir’) I was astonished. This meant now the car was out of warranty and I would need to part with huge amount of cash as Jag will only replace, not fix the cats. I refused. I was not prepared for jaguar to profit from this problem.
If I was cynical I would say the flexis have deliberately been made weak/poor so they will fail eventually – unethical on so many levels it’s untrue. Either that or the engineering is just terrible and nobody spotted it. Its hard to say which is worse to be honest...
Anyway I’m 26 – I have my whole car future ahead of me. None of which will involve a jaguar again, and I love British brands... Don’t get me wrong, I was lucky, I’m able to fix the car myself for virtually nothing and at no point was it “off the raod”... but that’s not the point. I would love a conversation with the customer relations director – in fact should you happen to read this PM me.
Jaguar – “Beautiful design, poor engineering”
To name a few examples..
Flexis, Diff, Keys, discs and pads (are they actually made from recycled tin cans??), gear selector module, boot opener, boot loom, fuel flap, air con pipes, auto wipers... the list is endless – ALL are BASIC faults which a GCSE kid doing engineering could have fixed at concept design phase!!
Just to advise that there are 1 or 2 different spanners that can get to the 13mm nuts in question one being a half moon ratchet, another being an extra long spanner (but that would only get the lower two nuts),the third and this is a brilliant spanner long handle with a right hand bend at the end gets perfectly onto the top nut (removing the heat shield with the 10mm bolts on, will give you some extra movement). But also if the nuts start to stiffen stop undoing spray a little lube and just wait 5 mins for the stud /nut to cool down as it WILL snap if you don't
G
Guest
·I am fearing the worst. When I was on the motorway last week and needed extra oomph I changed down two gears and hit the gas. I heard a strange type of squeal/screech/whistle which I haven't heard before, but I couldn't be sure it was my car because of the other cars around.
Then sitting at traffic lights yesterday I could smell something like burned diesel fumes which made me think of this problem, but they could have been from another car.
When I got out of the car I noticed the engine didn't sound very smooth either, so I wondered does this problem cause an uneven soft chugging noise at idle as well, although I couldn't see or smell any fumes under the bonnet?
I don't want to dismantle the underneath to look for soot and the car is due to go to dealers for service/2nd MOT in two weeks anyway, so I will mention it for them to check - before extended warranty runs out.
Then sitting at traffic lights yesterday I could smell something like burned diesel fumes which made me think of this problem, but they could have been from another car.
When I got out of the car I noticed the engine didn't sound very smooth either, so I wondered does this problem cause an uneven soft chugging noise at idle as well, although I couldn't see or smell any fumes under the bonnet?
I don't want to dismantle the underneath to look for soot and the car is due to go to dealers for service/2nd MOT in two weeks anyway, so I will mention it for them to check - before extended warranty runs out.
Joined
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79 Posts
It sounds like you should mention it to the dealers.
A bit of a back-of-the-***-packet test to check your exhaust is intact is to do the following:
When the car is cold, turn on the ignition and ensure it is in park with the EPB on.
Get out the car and grab a dry rag - cover your hand with it.
Briefly place your hand over the exhaust (or both of them!) and the back pressure should cause the engine to struggle to run. This is a good thing and shows the exhaust is intact.
If you listen to the exhaust and hear a hissing noise, it may be an indication of an air leak in the system.
You shouldn't do this if the car is hot (exhaust temp) and you shouldn't rev when you're doing it either as you might damage the engine.
A bit of a back-of-the-***-packet test to check your exhaust is intact is to do the following:
When the car is cold, turn on the ignition and ensure it is in park with the EPB on.
Get out the car and grab a dry rag - cover your hand with it.
Briefly place your hand over the exhaust (or both of them!) and the back pressure should cause the engine to struggle to run. This is a good thing and shows the exhaust is intact.
If you listen to the exhaust and hear a hissing noise, it may be an indication of an air leak in the system.
You shouldn't do this if the car is hot (exhaust temp) and you shouldn't rev when you're doing it either as you might damage the engine.
This could just be the DPF going through its cleaning proceedure which is perfectly normal.
John
G
Guest
·Yep that's a good point, because the exhaust was ticking and cracking when I turned it off and I have noticed a rough idle before when it has been regenerating the dpf.
I was just concerned coming straight after the smell of burned diesel. I will take it out for a good run this afternoon (when the ice has melted on the roads) and see if I have any more symptoms.
I was just concerned coming straight after the smell of burned diesel. I will take it out for a good run this afternoon (when the ice has melted on the roads) and see if I have any more symptoms.
I've got this problem too, on an 08 XF 2.7TD. My (independent garage) service man tells me that a joint is leaking in 2 places near the turbo. But there's a doubt over how to fix it because the joint doesn't look like the one in the Jaguar diagram, which is sort of a triangular flange round a circular pipe affair.
I've replaced a few
Joined
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219 Posts
I've had my XF had for a yearly MOT checkup this morning (APK called in our country). I asked about checking the cats and their joints and wanted to have a look myself, which is not a problem at all with my dealer. Well, the cat at the right side of the car has the leaking problem, they showed me it. You are able to see a little black dust at the ring of it, where it's attached to a bigger metal device. The service man also mentioned that you could smell something inside the cabin of the car, which already would have been a trigger to check the cats themselves (my nose is not so sensitive so I don't smell as good as other people).
The service manager said that it's the 3rd or 4rd XF with this problem. It's always the right side cat, because that joint is smaller than the one on the left side. They are going to replace it on Friday and are going to speak about it with Jaguar, hopefully it's being treated as a kind of warranty matter, despite of the age of the car (4 years), because of the not so perfect original engineering.
The service manager said that it's the 3rd or 4rd XF with this problem. It's always the right side cat, because that joint is smaller than the one on the left side. They are going to replace it on Friday and are going to speak about it with Jaguar, hopefully it's being treated as a kind of warranty matter, despite of the age of the car (4 years), because of the not so perfect original engineering.
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