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Is the Tesla Model 3 Likely to Be the Most Important Car of this Decade?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 40.0%
  • No

    Votes: 9 60.0%

  • Total voters
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Now that Tesla has delivered on the future by commencing production and customer deliveries of its cheapest mass market vehicle, and now that every legacy automaker is issuing daily PR barrages of how great their EVs will be in 5 years, lets take a look at how Tesla so outclasses the competition.

1 - Lets look at safety. Lets look at one of the safest halo cars, from the legacy automaker with the biggest safety investments - the Volvo S60 and compare it to the cheapest product from Tesla. Lets look at the toughest test - the pole side impact.

Screen Shot 2017-07-29 at 12.21.45 PM.jpg


2 - Lets look at ability to innovate. While legacy automakers obsess about their key FOBs, giving you two, forcing you to carry an extra decide in your pocket, and in the case of JLR try to sell you an extra device (activity FOB/band), Tesla simply recognizes that all its customers carry a smartphone. So the phone and the Tesla App is the keyless entry and keyless start device. For valets, there is a credit card sized smart card that you can hand to a valet attendant and lets them unlock/drive with restrictions.

Screen Shot 2017-07-29 at 12.13.48 PM.jpg

3 - Lets look at platform. While legacy automakers try to adapt their Golfs and 3-series for elective drive or clunky hybrids, Tesla gives you a flat floor that has a ton more room and actually enables a middle seat adult to sit comfortably, a much airier and safer cabin, a lower C.G. and a great slightly rear-biased weight distribution.

And of course, Tesla gives you a perfectly sized front-trunk/boot, in addition to a spacious rear boot/trunk. Try that on your Legacy automaker vehicle.

Screen Shot 2017-07-29 at 12.12.52 PM.jpg

4 - Lets look at how Tesla handles the major optional features. While legacy outbackers, including the best in the world like Porsche, build thousands of combinations, and nickel and dime you to death with little features like USB audio or navigation, Tesla builds a handful of configurations, and software "unlocks" the optional features at the time of order/purchase, or later as an over the air (no dealer visit) upgrade. The biggest option of them all being autopilot/autonomous drive. Which Tesla can software unlock for $5,000 (enhanced autopilot) plus $3,000 (future fully autonomous).

Legacy automakers design their cars to make you go to the dealer frequently to keep dealers in business. Tesla designs their cars around over the air updates/upgrades to keep you away from dealers - because Tesla has no dealers. It sells and services you direct to consumer with no need to encourage "shop" visits.

Screen Shot 2017-07-29 at 12.13.17 PM.jpg


Picture courtesy of MotorTrend www.motortrend.com
 

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Discussion Starter #2
So, willingness to innovate. Designing for the end customer, not dealers (which are the legacy automaker rear customers). Ground up designing around the EV strengths. Over the air feature update/upgrades. Clean UI with center screen. Investment in their own battery factory and electric power train. Investment in their own (and todate only real) fast charging infrastructure.

I say it is not only difficult, it is impossible for legacy automakers to match Tesla.

Remember. If you buy a Tesla vehicle, you are Tesla's customer, with a customer file. If you buy a legacy automaker vehicle, the dealer has a customer file with the automaker. You have a milking err sales and services file with one or more dealers. Automakers cater to dealers. Tesla caters to end users of their products.

Tesla, if successful (and they do have challenges for sure), can really, really disrupt the automotive legacy automakers in a big way. Direct to consumer may be the biggest disruption of them all.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
And who here would rather sit in the middle seat of any Jaguar regardless of size vs sitting the middle seat of the Model 3 for a long journey?

Screen Shot 2017-07-29 at 12.43.48 PM.jpg


P.S. if you are gay and like a giant drive/structural tunnel between your legs that does not count.
 

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I say it is not only difficult, it is impossible for legacy automakers to match Tesla.

Remember. If you buy a Tesla vehicle, you are Tesla's customer, with a customer file. If you buy a legacy automaker vehicle, the dealer has a customer file with the automaker. You have a milking err sales and services file with one or more dealers. Automakers cater to dealers. Tesla caters to end users of their products.
It will be impossible for Jaguar dealers to even contemplate providing a service to their customers to match Tesla.

In a a recent survey Jaguar dealers rated Jaguar poorly in almost every area. Jaguar dealers on the whole thought that the Customer Service operation was rubbish compared to other manufacturers and only about 50% would recommend them as a potential franchise.
We do know that Tesla customers can Tweet Elon Musk with a concern and in some instances the issue has been addressed within minutes. Sadly on this forum Jaguar CRC have no interest in customers, just a tick box operation with cut and paste solutions.
 

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More evidence of the difficulty that legacy makers are having and their efforts to save themselves from Tesla.

Tesla Vehicle Lineup Via Preisert Design
IF LEGACY AUTOMAKERS CAN BEAT TESLA, WHY CAN’T THEY COMPLY WITH CHINA’S EV MANDATE?


The auto industry has a long history of trying to hold back the transition to electric vehicles. When the California Air Resources Board (CARB) mandated the creation of the first generation of modern EVs in the early 1990s, auto industry lobbyists went to work in the state capital, succeeded in killing the mandate, and quickly ended their EV programs.


All-electric concept cars from Big Auto try to emulate Tesla but have yet to make it into production (Image: L’argus)


After the industry’s near-death experience of 2008-2010, CARB revived its zero-emission-vehicle mandate, and the automakers, even as they built a new generation of EVs, renewed their efforts to have the regulations watered down or eliminated. This time, to date, they have not been successful.

Following the 2016 presidential election, the US legacy automakers immediately sent a letter to Washington urging the rollback of federal fuel economy (and safety) standards – the results of that effort are still pending.


The latest example of the automakers can’t-do attitude took the form of a letter to the Chinese government asking it to drastically weaken its zero-emission vehicle mandate, which would force automakers to make zero-emission vehicles 8% of their sales in the country in 2018, increasing to 12% by 2020.


*This article comes to us courtesy of EVANNEX (which also makes aftermarket Tesla accessories). Authored by Charles Morris.



China’s growing demand for electric vehicles (Image: Kirill Klip via Bloomberg)


As reported by Automotive News Europe, the letter was sent by trade associations representing just about every major automaker in the world (except Tesla, naturally).

“Because we have common concerns with the proposed NEV [new energy vehicle] rules, we have joined together to offer, with utmost respect, six recommended modifications,” it reads in part. “The proposed rules’ ambitious enforcement date is not possible to meet, and if unchanged would lead to a widespread disruption of the product portfolio of most automakers operating in China. At a minimum, the mandate needs to be delayed a year and include additional flexibilities.”

In addition to delaying the mandate, the automakers want to weaken the penalty system for companies that don’t meet the quotas, and to be awarded credits for plug-in hybrids in addition to pure electrics (unintended consequences of this policy have already been seen in China, where many buyers purchase plug-in SUVs with no intention of ever plugging them in).




Tesla’s Solar Supercharger in China

Meanwhile, some of these same companies, and their apologists in the media, insist that, once they finally decide to commit to electrification, they’re going to easily beat Tesla at its own game.
“Anything Tesla can do, we can surpass,” boasted Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess in May.

More recently, VW has been comparing its first native electric vehicle, which it plans to launch in Europe in 2019, to Tesla’s Model 3, predicting that it will be $7,000 to $8,000 cheaper.


Wired, among others, has been pushing the Goliaths-will-stomp-David narrative, with a 2016 article about how the Chevy Bolt beat the Tesla Model 3 to market, and a more recent one (April 2017) claiming that Detroit is already winning the race to build the self-driving car.

Others do not agree: Bloomberg recently predicted that Tesla would come out on top in the electric car battle, and a German auto industry analyst wrote that Tesla will end up with a “near-monopoly” of the EV market.




Tesla Model X in China


The irony here is monumental. The same companies that are confident they’ll be able to come from behind and surpass Tesla, even though (with the exceptions of GM and Nissan) their “Tesla-beating” EVs won’t be on the market for several years, say that they’re incapable of meeting China’s EV mandate.

It sounds like what they’re saying is, “When we get good and ready, we’ll start actually selling some EVs, but not yet, O Lord, not yet!”


What does Elon Musk think about all this? Speaking at the recent National Governors Association meeting, he praised China’s commitment to electric vehicles:

“Probably in ten years, more than half of new vehicle production is electric in the United States. China’s probably going to be ahead of that, because China’s been super-pro-EV. I don’t think a lot of people know this, but China’s environmental policies are way ahead of the US.

Their mandate for renewable energy far exceeds the US. Sometimes people are under the impression that China is either dragging their feet or somehow behind the US in terms of sustainable energy promotion, but they are by far the most aggressive on Earth – it’s crazy.”
Now BMVIrep what do you say, condemning Tesla “engineering” cars elsewhere is fine. I am sure you have been lent Jaguar ”engineering” cars as I have and you know that the Model 3 cars that were handed over yesterday (Musk made no secret of the fact that the first cars would be to employees for assessment ) may not have been perfect as I well remember the Jaguar XJ that I had back in 2009 wasn’t. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It is simply not possible to provide great customer service without a direct relationship with the customer.

I buy my iPhone directly from Apple. I want to buy my car directly from the manufacturer.

Legacy automaker customers have no choice. Legacy automakers cater to dealers, who in fact are this customers. The end user has no direct relationship with the manufacturer. It was only tolerated because there was no alternative. Just like before the Apple iPhone you had to buy carrier branded phones infested with their "blessed" crapware and logos.

Apple changed the phone and Tesla is changing the car. And a big part of it is standing up to "dealers/carriers".
 

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Now BMVIrep what do you say, condemning Tesla “engineering” cars elsewhere is fine. I am sure you have been lent Jaguar ”engineering” cars as I have and you know that the Model 3 cars that were handed over yesterday (Musk made no secret of the fact that the first cars would be to employees for assessment ) may not have been perfect as I well remember the Jaguar XJ that I had back in 2009 wasn’t. :)
But these were not "engineering" cars.
These Model 3s came off the production line, so they should be perfect.

If they are not perfect, then the implications are that there are, potentially, problems in one or more areas: the supply chain, assembly processes, assembly tooling, labour force assembly training, and so on.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
But these were not "engineering" cars.
These Model 3s came off the production line, so they should be perfect.

If they are not perfect, then the implications are that there are, potentially, problems in one or more areas: the supply chain, assembly processes, assembly tooling, labour force assembly training, and so on.
Old thinking again.

Tesla is very upfront about its process, which is common in Silicon Valley. Launch the MVP (minimum viable product) in a beta or soft launch - in this case Tesla employees. Then roll it out in one market - in this case California, close to the factory. Then widen it (whole US in 2018). Then widen further - in this case international deliveries will start in 2019.

Tesla fully expects and plans for problem and glitches in the cars and production process and will debug it during the ramp up.

The alternative is to burn a year or more debugging, and launching an already stale product.

Actually, you just reminded me of another reason why the legacy automakers can't match Tesla.
 

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Nobody wants to be a Tesla dealer. This is not innovation it is merely necessity.

Tesla makes no money selling EV. Nobody does.

The chart showing China's projected EV sales is pure fiction.
 

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It is simply not possible to provide great customer service without a direct relationship with the customer.

I buy my iPhone directly from Apple. I want to buy my car directly from the manufacturer.

Legacy automaker customers have no choice. Legacy automakers cater to dealers, who in fact are this customers. The end user has no direct relationship with the manufacturer. It was only tolerated because there was no alternative. Just like before the Apple iPhone you had to buy carrier branded phones infested with their "blessed" crapware and logos.

Apple changed the phone and Tesla is changing the car. And a big part of it is standing up to "dealers/carriers".
Legally speaking this is pure nonsense.
 

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Old thinking again.

Tesla is very upfront about its process, which is common in Silicon Valley. Launch the MVP (minimum viable product) in a beta or soft launch - in this case Tesla employees.
- really? 99% of people reading all the mainstream media's articles covering the Friday event will have come away with the impression that these were production cars and 'sold', i.e., to paying customers, especially as we were told the 'SN1', or 'Job1' as the industry traditionally calls the first saleable vehicle, was weeks ago.

Now you're telling us that these 30 units were not really serial production representative, but some kind of grey(gray) 'kind of production vehicle'. Which is it?

This is rubbish, typical of Musk, Tesla and its media pushers. The car isn't ready.

Anyone other than Tesla, and JLR in the UK, producing such knowingly undeveloped, potentially dangerous rubbish, for ludicrous prices, would be slapped with class lawsuits and cease production orders from the authorities.

New paradigm, my backside.
 

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Old thinking again.

Tesla is very upfront about its process, which is common in Silicon Valley. Launch the MVP (minimum viable product) in a beta or soft launch - in this case Tesla employees. Then roll it out in one market - in this case California, close to the factory. Then widen it (whole US in 2018). Then widen further - in this case international deliveries will start in 2019.

Tesla fully expects and plans for problem and glitches in the cars and production process and will debug it during the ramp up.

The alternative is to burn a year or more debugging, and launching an already stale product.

Actually, you just reminded me of another reason why the legacy automakers can't match Tesla.
This is where your continued use of the Silicon Valley label catches up with you.
The Model 3 is not like a new PC or Mac operating system, neither is it a new warfare game. For these products, Silicon Valley people are smart enough to know that users will push their software to the limit, and uncover whatever bugs may exist.

The Model 3 is a very expensive piece of hardware, which has to be "right first time, every time". If it's not, Tesla has screwed up.

If, as we are told, the full production launch was in July, but it could take a year or more to debug whatever parts of the processes may not be as they should be, then the issue of the Model 3 as being "an already stale product", is surely the consequence of the initial launch being only a "Power Point" product as you so often call them.

If it's not ready today, it was even less ready 16 months ago.
 

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Legacy car makers will have made some progress towards competing with Tesla the day that a “bug” can be reported over the air directly to Tesla Technical.

Even today motoring correspondents when reviewing Jaguars refer to the “clunky, freezing” ICTP.
Would the issues associated with ICTP have been resolved by now if Jaguar drivers could do the same as Teslas’

  • New Feedback Voice Command: There is a new voice command to help you provide feedback. Say“Note”, “Report”, “Bug note”, or “Bug report” followed by your brief comments. The car will capture a snapshot of your system, including screenshots of the two displays. Tesla will review these notes periodically and use them to continue improving Model S.
    To initiate a voice command, press and hold the upper right steering wheel button. Wait for the tone and then speak your command while continuing to hold the button down. Then release the button when you’re finished speaking.
As far as Jaguar are concerned it would appear that even their own dealers have little confidence in Technical support so it may be a while before they catch up with Tesla.

IMG_0757.jpg

Some sign of improvement since earlier survey :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
- really? 99% of people reading all the mainstream media's articles covering the Friday event will have come away with the impression that these were production cars and 'sold', i.e., to paying customers, especially as we were told the 'SN1', or 'Job1' as the industry traditionally calls the first saleable vehicle, was weeks ago.

Now you're telling us that these 30 units were not really serial production representative,
Not telling you any such thing. The 30 units were serial production cars, sold to a class of paying customers (Tesla employees) which by the nature of their employment and driving it every day to/from the factory are the perfect candidates to provide early vehicle feedback.

This is EXACTLY what Jaguar should have done with the ICTP. Sell that system only to employees, work out the kinks quickly then sell it to the general public.

Only idiots (like many JLR) think that new car and new build processes are 100% flawless. Smart people plan for a a ramp with lots of rework on JOB1 and lessening of rework on subsequent builds. Similarly they plan for pickups in the supply chain with component constraints that will throttle production.

By the time the first Model 3 is used by a non employee customer, it will have the benefit of Tesla's iterative product improvements based on the first models sold to employees. This is how every complex consumer product should be done. Eat your own food first, then serve to customers.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
The Model 3 is a very expensive piece of hardware, which has to be "right first time, every time". If it's not, Tesla has screwed up.
Nonsense again. Tesla is a piece of HW, with a very complex and fast evolving SW. Tesla has a great track record of releasing beta updates to employees, then to general customers, then making it final. It is the new way. Jaguar should have done it with ICTP if they even had 4G on the cars and had any ability to update them over the air.

The only difference you are seeing is that Tesla/Musk are transparent and freely share with their customers, including acknowledging the challenges ahead to ramp production speed. Contrast that with Jaguar who has "launched" the Ingenium petrol for 3 years, and no customer has seen one, or who pretends that ICTP is ready when it clearly does not work.
 

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An explanation why Tesla may outclass legacy makers.

We have been told that the young regard Tesla as the leading electric car brand.
When the new Leaf, with longer range, is available in the autumn it will surely capture significant market share and by the time the Model 3 arrives in the UK the legacy makers will really have to pull out the stops.

New Nissan Leaf without camo. Photo used with permission.


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Tesla Model 3 To Crush BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Acura, Lexus, Jaguar, Toyota … Everyone





July 30th, 2017 by Zachary Shahan
Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Lexus should be prepped for this, since they’ve already been walloped in the large luxury sedan class.
Nonetheless, what’s coming is like nothing they could truly prep for. These automakers have been trading wins with each other in various monthly and annual sales races, but Usain Bolt just came to town and is soon joining track days.


I wrote at length in recent months trying to compare the Tesla Model 3 to every BMW near it, every Audi in its arena, every Acura in its lane, every Lexus in its weight class, and every Mercedes keeping an eye on it from across the room.

I may soon come back to those broad and detailed comparisons now that we have more Model 3 details and will surely accumulate extra facts and goodies in the coming months.

However, still riding the enthusiasm wave of the Model 3’s final broad and official show & tell, I was drawn to take one step further back for a comparison that’s less about crunching the numbers and more about the user experience. That said, I couldn’t help glancing at the numbers again as well. So, in this article, I’m going to do two things:



1) Try to better understand and communicate how the Tesla Model 3 will compare to BMW’s, Audi’s, Daimler’s, Lexus’s, Acura’s, Jaguar’s, and other companies’ similarly priced options in the minds of generic, normal consumers.

2) Take another look at the pricing and specs of the Model 3, including the new details we got on Friday, compared to the specs of the Model 3’s prime competitors.

1) The World Is Changing

The world is changing, as it always is. Plenty of people will shudder at any thought of notable changes to the products they are used to, but others will happily jump into a smoother, more interesting, more open, better consumer option.

The cell phone had its naysayers, as did computers, the internet, smartphones, flat-screen TVs, refrigerators, and sliced bread. But enough people can understand the benefits of a better product that they moved the rest of us forward.

There are a few ways in which the Tesla Model 3 is head & shoulders above the competition. Some of these are obvious and have been discussed at length, while others seem tiny on the surface … but are in fact those “little things in life” that change history.

I’m sure I’m missing some factors, and maybe I’m wrong on some, but the following are specific features of the Tesla Model 3 that I think will make the mass market very quickly see competing gasoline cars from the old guard as 20th century technology.


Openness: Tesla Model S has a very open feel to it that impresses passenger after passenger. Yes, the Model S is a bigger vehicle and has more room than most cars specifically because it’s big.

But there’s also an openness that comes from certain design elements, elements that sometimes strike people subtly and sometimes hit them right in the eyeball. The Model 3, even though it’s smaller than the Model S, seems to take that openness to a whole other level.



For one, there’s the supersplendulous window in the back. Even at night, this has made an impression on early passengers and makes the Model 3 feel abnormally open and spacious.

Elon highlighted this in his Friday presentation as well. It may all seem odd and just a side note right now, but I have a hunch that spending 30 minutes in this car will lead to people feeling like the back seats of normal cars are excessively shut off from the world.

And spending 3 weeks with a Model 3 will surely make the results more dramatic.

By the way, Tesla also added extra headroom in the Model 3 compared to the Model S. (There are benefits to the 3 not being a hot hatch.) It may be a smaller car, but don’t expect it to feel small at all.




There are other elements of the Model 3 that will provide hundreds of thousands of people with an openness they are not accustomed to … but one they will quickly and easily get accustomed to. The lack of a leg blocker in the middle of the back seat is one other example — something many Model S users (and some other electric car users) know is a huge plus of the electric-only skateboard drivetrain.




In the front, removing the conventional instrument cluster and dashboard has thrown off a lot of humans — it looks so strange to us. But imagine for a moment that the minimalist Model 3 dash was the norm we were used to and some company decided to throw all kinds of distractions onto the dash. Come on, you can’t say you would think that’s a good idea! As we move into an autonomous future, this more open layout — similar to what you get if you sit in the front seats on the second level of a double-decker coach/bus — will make 10x more sense (literally, 10x more).

A BMW 3-Series or 4-Series, Mercedes 300 or 350e, Audi A3 or A4, Lexus ES or IS, or Jaguar XE doesn’t and can’t offer these benefits. Perhaps their closed and cluttered interiors seem like comfy norms now, but I think they won’t at all once people have spent a bit of time in a Model 3 — whether it’s their own Model 3, the Model 3 of a family member, the Model 3 of a friend, or the Model 3 of a taxi or shuttle.


Torque: This is so obvious that I don’t know if I want to spend more than one line on it. The torque of an electric car offers such a useful, low-stress, and fun driving experience that gasmobiles quickly feel like tractors. The 0–60 mph times of electric cars mask how quick they really feel, and how quick they are to the more important 30 mph speed common in cities. This is an old graph showing how a Nissan LEAF’s torque curve compares to a gasmobile’s, but it’s still one of my favorites for visualizing this experience in a nerdy way:




You can see the difference in that graph, but yeah, you can’t really feel it. However, anyone who sits behind the wheel of an electric car — whether it’s a LEAF, a BMW i3, a Model 3, or a Model S P100D — can quickly tell the difference. It’s a tremendous difference. A nice gasoline-powered Mercedes or BMW immediately feels like antiquated technology. Experiencing this torque almost invariably puts a smile on the driver’s face.
The bigger shock, however, is when you go back to a gas car. Again, I recommend just checking out this piece for context and more verbose commentary: “Our Tractor Keeps Shaking Violently … & Has A Sore Throat.”
A Model 3 may be a level down from a quick Model S, but it is two levels above its gas counterparts.




Serenity:
I highlight the fun and convenience of electric cars in article after article and speech after speech. After presenting on this at an EV conference in Amsterdam a few months ago (see video above), Thierry Lepercq — Executive Vice President of Engie in charge of Research, Technology and Innovation — was giving his own presentation about rEVolution. He started out by referencing my comments and saying that the biggest benefit of driving an EV is neither fun nor convenience — it’s the peaceful, serene, smooth, quiet drive of an electric car. He may be right.

The torque is awesome and fun, but the silence is even more powerful. The silky smooth ride of an electric car — especially a Tesla — is another level of premium. No amount of insulation or noise reduction technology in a gasmobile can replace that experience. Your foot can feel it, your body can feel it, and your mind can sense it.

Imagine instead of walking on a still floor like normal, the ground was always shaking. As you walked around, you had to feel and navigate the rumbles. Imagine it was rumbling even when you were sitting on your couch. Get the point?




The Model 3 is in a different league from its BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and Lexus gas counterparts because of this. Consumers will notice. Think I’m just an EV enthusiast? Well, I recently had an older gentlemen with a brand new Jaguar XJ jump into our Tesla Model S for a quick test ride. He was blown away at how much nicer it felt than his more expensive XJ. A few days later, an accomplished Polish tech CEO with a Lexus SUV/CUV drove the Model S. He emphasized how much smoother, quieter, and more luxurious it felt than his Lexus SUV/CUV.

To push you in that direction for a third time, I recommend this article for a longer monologue on this topic: “Our Tractor Keeps Shaking Violently … & Has A Sore Throat.”



21st Century Controls:
This is again a controversial topic at the moment. Some observers feel like the Model 3 is robbing them of the opportunity to turn the normal knobs and flick the normal switched in an automobile.

There are countless claims that the advanced touchscreen and steering wheel controls of the Model 3 are just a cheap workaround to cut costs. I think the streamlined yet sophisticated system Tesla has put in place for the Model 3 will, again, make other options look like old technology — even, in some cases, what the Model S offers!




Look at how Motor Trend is already raving about the options to carefully control the air vents. Look at how others are gasping at the ability to control the mirrors in a fun & convenient new way. And check out how the same slick system gives you a more intuitive ability to adjust the steering wheel. Navigation, music, A/C, vehicle driving options — they’re all evolving in Model 3. In the old class of “premium” gasmobiles? Not so much.

Yes, we have entered a new era. Yes, Tesla has brought us into it. Sure, call me a fanboy. I just like better consumer goods.

2) Tesla Model 3 Specs vs Gasoline Competitors





Now, regarding the specs, I really think I should explore these in closer detail on another day (it’s freakin’ 3:15 am here!), but a quick snapshot of the Model 3 versus its “closest” competitors should give a good overview of how the boring practicalities (and acceleration) of a Model 3 stack up against cars that together sell in the millions each year.

Price (without extra features)Price after US Federal Tax Credit0–60 mph (seconds)Trunk+Frunk Space (cu. ft.)LengthWidth
Tesla Model 3 Standard$35,000$27,5005.61518576
Tesla Model 3 Long Range$44,000$36,5005.11518576
Audi A3$31,000$31,0006.612175.570
Audi A3 e-tron$39,000$34,4007.61417070
Audi A4$35,000$35,0006.1–7.11318672.5
Lexus ES$39,000$39,0007.11519372
Lexus ES Hybrid$42,000$42,0008.11219372
Lexus IS$38,000$38,0006.91118471
Mercedes 300$39,500$39,500613184.571
Mercedes 350e$46,050$35,0005.812184.572
BMW 2 Series$33,150$33,15041418570
BMW 3 Series$33,450$33,4504.61317971.5
BMW 4 Series$42,400$42,4004.61618372
Acura ILX$27,990$27,990N/A1218271
Acura TLX$33,000$33,000N/A1419173
Jaguar XE$35,725$35,72561618482

Basically, the gas car competition in the same price range is almost entirely slower (BMW has models that are quicker, but I guarantee you they won’t feel quicker and they probably aren’t quicker to 30 mph).

They also have less storage space and are smaller (only the Jaguar XE and perhaps Acura RLX are a comparable size and price). The Tesla Model 3 is a quicker, bigger, better car for the price category it’s in.


How long till the masses that are in the market for a $30,000–50,000 car discover this?

Well, ~500,000 consumers seem to have already discovered it, but there are millions more in this market.
How long till those additional millions get a chance to see, ride in, and drive the first 500,000 Model 3 super-sedans to hit the roads?




 

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Discussion Starter #17
Here is another perfect example as to how/why Tesla completely outclasses the legacy automakers.

Mercedes needed an EV to sell in North America. So they contracted with Tesla to buy the Tesla powertrain and put it into their B-Class EV and that went on sale in 2013. So here we have a "as good as in the Model S" powertrain, integrated, sold and serviced by arguably the best car company in the world - Daimler/MercedesBenz.

How did they/it do? Well....for starters, Mercedes went only 1/2 way. They didn't include OTA update capability in the Model B EV. So, when an update was required to the powertrain, which was done over the air in the Model S, Mercedes had issue an actual recall letter, force owners to bring the vehicles to the dealer to have the SW update. Fail, fail, fail.

And of course, Mercedes was not perceived as an EV leader. So after 3 and 1/2 years, only 3,651 Mercedes Bens EVs were sold in North America. Fail, fail, fail.

And now Mercedes is throwing in the towel and killing it after ridiculously high launch expenses. Fail, fail, fail.

Anyone who thinks that legacy automakers will do better than Tesla in bringing EVs to market and selling them is in for a nasty surprise.

You need to be all in. EV, your own motors, your own battery packs, your own superchargers, your own retail stores to play this game. As Mercedes North America massive fail with the B-Class EV illustrates, doing a little bit of EV on the side does not work.
 

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As I understand this argument, so far, when a major manufacturer of the world's best cars decides to build a Tesla and then gives up after failing to make it work, that reflects badly on the major maker?

Who on earth would build a car with the expectation of needing to repair (or "update") the product after delivery? Shouldn't the manufacturer be dining to get the car built right before it is released to the customer? For example, on what rational basis would you release a car to market with an Autopilot which you deliberately manufacture in such a way that you can "update" the Autopliot? Shouldn't such vital safety related accessory be flawless right from delivery? Imagine Tesla advertising that they could improve the braking or steering on their cars by online real time updates!!!!!!

Logically, this is a clear indictment of Tesla's product and manufacturing plans. Mercedes will still be around long after Tesla is just an unpleasant taste in investors' mouths.
 

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An explanation why Tesla may outclass legacy makers.
This article says exactly, what I'm feeling, and what I have tried to say here on several occasions. You can come with all your numbers, facts and data. You can talk about price, range, acceleration and so on. But what it boils down to is, that an EV is a very nice car to drive. In many ways a much better car to drive than a conventional ICE car. This article and the articles linked to explains it very well. When you have gotten used to the silence and lack of vibrations in an EV, to the way it accelerates and decelerates, so you can drive it with only one foot most of the time, then a conventional car with an ICE will feel old fashioned. It will feel like a dinosaur. Even though I love the sound of the V8 engine of my XF, I acknowledge, that it doesn't really serve any purpose. On the contrary, it's a constant reminder of the fact, that my car is quickly becoming obsolete in many ways. But I'll keep it for now, while I observe the development of the automotive world. It will be interesting to see, how the cars develop over the next few years, and which cars the buying public will prefer. Will they switch to EV's in large numbers, or will they keep preferring the ICE, as some think?
 

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Imagine Tesla advertising that they could improve the braking or steering on their cars by online real time updates!!!!!!
LOL

That is ***** exactly ***** what Tesla did. They have refined their brake regeneration to improve brake pedal feel and regen performance and have also updated the steering effort and other tuning. All over the air!!!!!

To further answer your ridiculous question. Modern products are SW intensive and are constantly being refined.

VW, Mercedes, BMW et al will all have to bring millions of vehicles back to the dealers to update their emissions SW at great expense and inconvenience to customers. All that, in a properly designed car - i.e. Tesla - would happened at night over the air.

Go read the recall notices. The vast majority of them is for system SW updates. I just had one safety recall on the Jeep that required a dealer visit to "update the airbag software calibration to prevent injury or death in an accident" those are the exact words of the recall notice.

Updating of SW for both critical (e.g. airbags, brakes) and non critical (e.g. ICTP and German Car Emissions SW) are completely common in the industry.

The only difference is that Tesla handles those at night, over the air while you sleep. All other car maker force you to haul your ass to the dealer at your inconvenience.

How can you be so misinformed? It is actually quite amazing!!!!
 
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