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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
So now the Alfa Stelvio has been tested gaining five stars. I'm sure it won't be long until we get the results of the new Volvo XC60. Jaguar are quite happy (& quite rightly) to tell you on their website the five star rating the XF achieved. However, their best selling car & world car of the year, the F-Pace, and no crash test results? Something not right surely. Anyone can shed any light on this?
 

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I have no idea why because a 5 star rating would be an important plus from a marketing standpoint.
It occurs to me that BMVIrep has mentioned that there may need to be a modification to reduce the emissions from the diesel Ingenium engine.
Might it be the case that if a modification is required to, say the exhaust system, that NCAP testing prior to any modification would negate the test ?
 

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I have no idea why because a 5 star rating would be an important plus from a marketing standpoint.
It occurs to me that BMVIrep has mentioned that there may need to be a modification to reduce the emissions from the diesel Ingenium engine.
Might it be the case that if a modification is required to, say the exhaust system, that NCAP testing prior to any modification would negate the test ?
No, Pekem. I can't see how the exhaust/emission system, any changes as a result of Dieselgate/RDE, could have any bearing on crash testing.
 

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So now the Alfa Stelvio has been tested gaining five stars. I'm sure it won't be long until we get the results of the new Volvo XC60. Jaguar are quite happy (& quite rightly) to tell you on their website the five star rating the XF achieved. However, their best selling car & world car of the year, the F-Pace, and no crash test results? Something not right surely. Anyone can shed any light on this?
Yes, agreed, 14 months on from launch, and no crash test, anywhere, not in Europe by EuroNCAP, nor in the US by NHTSA or IIHS.

My view is that after the near-disastrous Land Rover Discovery crash test, Euro NCAP read the riot act to JLR privately, saying in public, between the lines, that 'this is a joke, it can't go on, we'll let it go this time, but this is your last chance'.

If EuroNCAP's UK testing body, Thatcham Research wasn't a political body, it would have failed the Disco, 4 possibly 3 stars, due to door opening, car near end over ending, etc.

Contrary to the propaganda about the 'all-new' F-Pace, it is just a shortened, chopped Range Rover/Range Rover Sport, without air suspension.

Of course the Disco 5 is also a Range Rover/Range Rover Sport, with slightly different clothes.

So the point is, if the Disco is so bad, and the F-Pace the same basic vehicle, with the exact same front crash structure, from the A-Post/firewall forward, and the door apertures very similar too, in terms of B-post strengthening etc, the chances are an F-Pace will perform very similar to the Disco 5, and this time Euroncap and Thatcham cannot be seem to be passing off another obvious duffer with 5*, as it would bring the whole system into disrepute.

Possibly already, EuroNCAP has removed JLR testing from Thatcham. That will be a disaster for JLR, as testing by continental bodies, like ADAC, will not be so 'amenable'.

If this has happened, that would alone explain the no-show of the F-Pace crash test, as JLR engineers would know that the F-Pace would fail - 3 or 4* - and would not present the vehicle for testing.

As to the US, no JLR vehicle has been crash tested by the govt body, NHTSA, or the independent insurance body, IIHS, since 2008, when Tata took over from Ford.

I expect we will never see a crash test of an F-Pace or any JLR by NHTSA or IIHS, as they would not get 'top pick' or suchlike, which, as can be seen by the 2012 Tesla Model S, failing the small overlap test, would mean a probably fatal outcome for JLR sales in the US, and potentially the end of the company.
 

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You guys are really something. Euro NCAP, NHTSA and IIHS crash test a small percentage of newly introduced vehicles every year. They tend to focus on vehicles with significant volumes, and or in new categories (e.g. EVs).

The fact that the F-Pace has not been tested is not remarkable at all. Trying to make it sound like a conspiracy is lame.
 

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You guys are really something. Euro NCAP, NHTSA and IIHS crash test a small percentage of newly introduced vehicles every year. They tend to focus on vehicles with significant volumes, and or in new categories (e.g. EVs).

The fact that the F-Pace has not been tested is not remarkable at all. Trying to make it sound like a conspiracy is lame.
So one minute the F-Pace is Jaguar's saviour and only volume car, the next it's too small(volume).

How about the Alfa Stelvio? Why has that been tested and not the F-Pace?

Why have the Americans not tested a single Jaguar or Land Rover since 2008?

Why has the XJ not been tested by EuroNCAP in 8 years?

The 'new' E-Pace is the Evoque in a new frock, and so we can expect that to be not tested either, as the Evoque's bones go back to 2006, and 5-stars in a EuroNCAP test has become a tad more rigorous since the Evoque's test in 2011.
 

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Seems JLR has a problem with the Land Rover Discovery's doors:

1:20 in EuroNCAP crash test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SByJ1pJB3GA

plus this:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=91&t=1675121

JLR tried blaming it on the windscreen seals, but it appears obvious that at higher speed the door frame is sucked out, causing the wind noise.

This is why I believe the F-Pace hasn't been crash tested - at least one of the reasons.

The Disco 5, Range Rover, Range Rover Sport, F-Pace and Velar all share the same platform, have the same crash structure from the firewall forward, and essentially share the same body construction, except varying heights of glass house.

The door problem - opening in the crash test, and moving away from its aperture at higher speed - would be mimicked by the F-Pace, but perhaps not as severe.

I believe JLR can't take the risk, as:

i) the F-Pace is Jaguar's only seller, and if that fails 5*s, it's the end for Jaguar
ii) their joker so to speak was played with the Disco 5 test, so no more 'concessions' from EuroNCAP

Amateur sleuthing and deductions maybe, but I believe this is correct, plus other problems inherent in the 2012 Range Rover platform, itself largely based on the 2003 X350 XJ, which is not fit for purpose in a 2017 EuroNCAP test.
 

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Here you are, at last the F-Pace has its five stars :)


Whitley, UK,

13 December 2017


The Jaguar F-PACE performance SUV has added a five-star Euro NCAP rating to its 2017 World Car of the Year title.


The performance SUV, which also won 2017 World Car Design of the Year at the 2017 World Car Awards, scored 93% for adult occupant protection, 85% for child occupant protection and 80% for pedestrian protection.
Combining award winning design, innovative engineering and now a five-star safety rating marks the F-PACE out as the ultimate family car.

This result also confirms the current PACE family’s safety status following the recent award of five stars to the all-new E-PACE compact SUV.

F-PACE features advanced safety technology such as Autonomous Emergency Braking with Pedestrian Detection, as standard, which can detect a collision risk with cars or pedestrians in the road ahead and automatically apply the brakes. The system performed well, scoring maximum points in pedestrian tests as well as avoiding or mitigating all of the inter-urban scenarios.

"The Jaguar F-PACE combines award winning design and engineering with exceptional safety. The lightweight aluminium intensive body of the 2017 World Car of the Year provides excellent protection alongside the dynamic performance customers expect from a Jaguar. Improvements to active safety technologies, such as Forward Traffic Detection and Driver Condition Monitoring, ensured F-PACE achieved the five-star Euro NCAP score."

Nick Rogers, Executive Director, Product Engineering, Jaguar Land Rover

The F-PACE has become the fastest-selling Jaguar ever, with the 100,000th vehicle recently rolling off the production line at Jaguar Land Rover’s Solihull manufacturing facility. The performance SUV has received more than 70 global awards, including the 2017 World Car of the Year and World Car Design of the Year titles.

The F-PACE features an aluminium intensive architecture with six airbags to create a super-strong occupant safety cell allied with a suite of advanced driver assistance systems. The combination of active and passive safety measures helped deliver an overall Euro NCAP rating of 85%.


  • Autonomous Emergency Braking with Pedestrian Detection: provides an audible forward collision warning and should the driver not take action, applies the brakes to help reduce the severity of a collision or prevent it
  • Forward Traffic Detection: is able to detect items crossing the path of the vehicle. It then provides a visual warning on the central screen when a potential hazard is detected
  • Adaptive Cruise Control with Queue Assist: automatically reduces speed should the vehicle ahead slow down and, once the road ahead is clear, will resume its pre-set speed
  • Lane Keep Assist:detects unintentional lane drift and can guide the driver back towards the centre by applying a small amount of counter-steering
  • Reverse Traffic Monitor: warns the driver of vehicles, pedestrians or other hazards approaching from either side of the vehicle, providing audio and visual alerts
  • Driver Condition Monitor:senses driver fatigue by monitoring steering, brake and accelerator inputs to provide alerts when tiredness is detected
  • Blind Spot Assist: alerts the driver to vehicles in, or fast approaching, the blind spot with a flashing warning light and will guide the car safely away if the vehicle begins to change lanes
 

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Here you are, at last the F-Pace(sic) has its five stars :)
'General comments

The Jaguar F-Pace shares much of its structure with the Range Rover Velar, tested by Euro NCAP in October 2017. Tests have been performed where differences might be expected but in some cases the results of the Velar have been used for this assessment.'

- EuroNCAP: https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/jaguar/f-pace/29701

Wow, they - Thatcham 'Research'/EuroNCAP - essentially just gave this car a free pass!

So we can look forward to the mechanically identical VW T-Roc and Audi Q2 having their entirely separate tests scrubbed by ADAC/EuroNCAP for example?

Thatcham and EuroNCAP is a joke, desperate to keep this ****, Tata's JLR, floating.

According to the EuroNCAP F-Pace 'crashtest' pictures, the F-Pace DID NOT undergo a full frontal crash test, nor a side impact pole crash test, and perhaps others, like autonomous emergency braking, pedestrian avoidance etc.

Why is so much frigging allowed for this one company?


PS Thatcham/EuroNCAP made up the Pedestrain section - Velar 72%, F-Pace 80%:

F-Pace Pedestrian Comments:

The protection provided to the head of a.struck pedestrian was predominantly good or adequate over most of the bonnet surface, with some weak and poor results recorded on the stiff windscreen pillars. The bumper provided good protection to pedestrians' legs while protection of the pelvis areas was more mixed, with good and poor results recorded. The autonomous emergency braking system can detect pedestrians and, in tests of this functionality, performed well, with scoring maximum points with collisions avoided or mitigated in all test scenarios.

word for word with the Velar's:

The protection provided to the head of a.struck pedestrian was predominantly good or adequate over most of the bonnet surface, with some weak and poor results recorded on the stiff windscreen pillars. The bumper provided good protection to pedestrians' legs while protection of the pelvis areas was more mixed, with good and poor results recorded. The autonomous emergency braking system can detect pedestrians and, in tests of this functionality, performed well, with scoring maximum points with collisions avoided or mitigated in all test scenarios.

- even down to the typo - 'a.struck'.

Obviously the F-Pace needed an 8% boost, to its even worse sales figures than the Velar.

The f*ckers at Thatcham/EuroNCAP just literally copy and pasted the Velar's into the F-Pace's, or vice versa, it doesn't matter which, showing both their laziness to try to make it appear different, and their contempt for the muppets who trust anything that comes out of Thatcham/EuroNCAP.
 

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1:20 - side impact test, top of door flops around like a wet lettuce leaf.

The Velar's does too, as would be expected, with the door being identical, save the styled outside lower panel.

It must have just come down to the tested Velar giving slightly better visual results on the side pole and frontal tests, that these were shown rather than the F-Pace's.

Interesting that Autocar, Auto Express etc. are not playing up the F-Pace's supposedly joy-worthy crash test news, especially compared to the shouting surrounding the Velar's a while back, probably because they don't want to draw attention to this extraordinary arrangement JLR seems to have with the crash testers, which might lead people to ask what is going on.
 
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