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Covid over and markets down - something doesn't add up. Oh yeah, 'markets' aren't markets.

Tesla seemed a one-way bet. Imagine buying in at the start of the year, when according to all the YouTube analysts it was just a question of $2,000 or $3,000 by the end of the year.

It just got even harder for someone to risk taking Jaguar/JLR on. $70-100k+ cars, whether EVs or not, will be the first disposed of disposable income purchases/leases.

Why did they end Covid? Either they genuinely overcooked it, and the economy is in freefall, or they had this follow up all along, where the people who bought into everything at or near the top in the fake markets narrative get roasted alive. I honestly don't know.
 

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Covid over and markets down - something doesn't add up. Oh yeah, 'markets' aren't markets.
The Covid end was basically priced in last year, as high as most markets went. Now inflation, interest rates etc plays the normal role.

Tesla seemed a one-way bet. Imagine buying in at the start of the year, when according to all the YouTube analysts it was just a question of $2,000 or $3,000 by the end of the year.
Everyone who takes his own money for something like that should know that bubbles can inflate, deflate or even burst. It is a gamble.

Another week went without any positive Jaguar news, time to look forward what the next one brings (cough).
 

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@Sauerkraut, I apologise for bringing up that Viking person. His voice alone is hard work.

I like your positivity. Maybe BMW will do the unimaginable and buy Jaguar or JLR. Maybe Anthony Bamford will.

Something has to happen.
Why on earth would BMW want to buy Jaguar? BMW are already ahead as a player in the luxury car market so what would they possible do with Jaguar?
 

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Why on earth would BMW want to buy Jaguar? BMW are already ahead as a player in the luxury car market so what would they possible do with Jaguar?
BMW and JLR were supposed to be working together anyway; it would almost certainly cost nothing, a token sum; BMW struggles to compete with Porsche at the top end - a much more focused Jaguar on sports cars could give it this.
 

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BMW has a gap in the Bentley segment, the luxury segment above their own offerings and below Rolls-Royce. That is a bit different to the market segment Porsche has. If BMW had the intention to move more into the sports cars area, they maybe would have shown interest in McLaren.

Another aspect in the background is the traditional rivalry between BMW and Audi. Bentley now belongs to Audi, even if everything is under the same company umbrella. That could be a motivation for BMW.

Wishful thinking, surely. And what value marketing experts now see in Jaguar is something I can not judge. For a future, Jaguar now needs a restart anyway (like Star Wars years ago).
 

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I wonder... ...is something afoot?

Revisionists are now two a penny on the Covid thing - 'everyone knew it was a joke/scam/psy op from the start - but we only got around to saying it a week ago'.

Is similar happening with the EV thing? BMW was the first to throw a rock into the pond, with its 'sod that, we're still making engines', and now Tavares(Stellantis) throws in a boulder, and basically says it's just a govt thing, artificial, almost daring to call out its whole predication - Global Warming - when everywhere is plainly freezing, even Aussie test matches regularly rained off, or played in northern England summer-like conditions - 15-20 deg. C, cloudy, damp - very similar by the way to the horrible climate/weather in the uplands of Victoria in Ned Kelly's on-the-run days in the last 1870s.

Why this heresy against the CAGW/EV/Zero Carbon religion? Do they know something, besides that it's bloody cold everywhere? The pivot was supposed to be from Covid to Climate Change, but perhaps both have blown up, been rumbled.

People like TeslaBjorn have ridden the EV wave, mania. Like the people piling into TSLA and tech generally over the last few months, they think, thought, it was a one-way bet, the world truly warming, caused by man burning 'dinosaur juice', Elon was a god, and they just had to stick in there to be multi-millionaires in a year or two's time rather than just millionaires now.

These are the same geniuses - clowns - who never questioned the Covid thing, nor CAGW of course, or Musk being a god.

They are now at peak hubris, or insufferability, up their own backsidesness. Nyland for instance barely conceals his contempt for lazy, privileged Norwegians/Europeans, compared to hard-working, industrious 'Asians' - he means Chinese, his partial or main ethnicity He never questions the orthodoxy, just goes along with it to get along.

If these people were so clever, why did they let themselves be injected with god knows what, the 'clot shot' etc? If they were so clever, they'd know that the boom in TSLA and other tech stock was due to orchestration, vast money printing, and huge govt subsidies, tax credits and write offs - the huge success of Taycan in UK - which can be let go as easily as it was ramped up.

These insufferable jerks, like Nyland and the albino 'viking' guy in Melbourne, are I'm pretty sure about to discover that 'hard work' and 'industry analysis' is not really work or making a living, that of driving a car for a few hours a day and making a video of an Ionity charging session - yawn - or predicting TSLA, EV, and Chinese auto makers are headed for the moon, and everyone else is dog meat.

Bottom line, if you fell for the Covid thing, your opinion, 'expert commentary', pompous advice to national govts, is worth less than what the likes of Nyland really thinks of Europeans.
 

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Does somebody know something here?
Window Sky Building Architecture Facade
Window Sky Building Architecture Facade
 

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That must be a coincidence :eek:

What I had in mind recently was from a Talking Heads song...

We're on a road to nowhere
Come on inside
Takin' that ride to nowhere
We'll take that ride


But to give it some positive spin, the verse before it is

And we're not little children
And we know what we want
And the future is certain
Give us time to work it out



Is similar happening with the EV thing? BMW was the first to throw a rock into the pond, with its 'sod that, we're still making engines', and now Tavares(Stellantis) throws in a boulder...
EVs are a typical first world topic. Who knows, if the needed infrastructure to power everything will be there (here in Germany I doubt it a bit)... the political decisions are made anyway. From what I read, Tavares is right. But as Stellantis is one of the players that had problems before, he knows that it will get even harder for them. For those who offered more expensive cars before the transition is easier.
 

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Someone's been fibbing and conspiring again - JLR & EPA:

Ford Bronco V6 in worst Cd format does better than EPA; Defender I6 with mild hybrid does worse than EPA - 19.7 v 17 mpg EPA; 19.4 v 22 mpg EPA:

 

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There is not much in the German media, but an automotive industry journal has something. As those articles are behind a Paywall and in German, here are some details.

One article is from September 2021. The title means: Jaguar repositioning: The dealers' fear of luxury

It says that dealers fear about their investments. There is no strategy at all, Jaguar has not given any informations. The unofficial "next on Bentley level" made it even worse. According to the dealer association, since 2016 JLR dealers in Germany made investments of 160 million Euro. And they need to continue to do so, as they signed contracts. But those were based on now obsolete plans. The former expecations were 10,000 yearly Jaguar sales with further increases. The Jaguar dealers have an investment protection, so dealership terminations would be expensive. There is a huge difference between premium and luxury dealeships. Bentley has 12 dealerships in Germany.

The second article is from three days ago. With the title: Double Interview Jaguar Land Rover: "Fundamentally different requirements"

Taking part are the German JLR manager and a dealer representative. The dealer representative said 2021 was a difficult year. And they fear that 22 will not get better. Asked "Are traders ready to invest further?" he answers "The problem for traders is that the conditions have changed fundamentally since the investment agreements were made. The sales expectations are completely different than five years ago."

Another question is "The market expectation as part of the CI investments was initially 10,000 new cars at Jaguar, now Jaguar is significantly less than half. If the brand wants to go into the luxury segment, as announced by JLR boss Thierry Bollore, there are significantly fewer."

The JLR manager answers with "We have clearly positioned Jaguar for the future. After 2025, the brand will be more luxurious and purely electric. Jaguar has always been the smaller brand, and the current situation shows that you can also achieve a good return with less volume. We also have two brands: Jaguar and Land Rover. We want to undertake the journey with both brands together with our dealers. But first we want to overcome the semiconductor crisis. Only when we know the facts, we want to take the next steps."

The dealer representatives answer is a bit shorter "It is a huge problem for the dealers that they cannot assess the situation at Jaguar."

The manager is then asked "Luxury brands have significantly smaller networks. Do you want to keep the current network size of 91 dealerships when Jaguar becomes a Bentley competitor?"

His answer is "We will announce our plans in due course. But we plan to go into the future together with our dealers. The physical experience is very important to our brands, although we cannot give an existence guarantee to our retailers. Of course you can always find a hair in the soup. The decisive factor is that the cards at Jaguar Land Rover are on the table. In 2030, every model will have an all-electric variant. The first new all-electric model will be the Range Rover in 2024."


I made some parts bold... not that hair is the predominent content of the soup that dealers need to stomach.
 

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There is not much in the German media, but an automotive industry journal has something. As those articles are behind a Paywall and in German, here are some details.

One article is from September 2021. The title means: Jaguar repositioning: The dealers' fear of luxury

It says that dealers fear about their investments. There is no strategy at all, Jaguar has not given any informations. The unofficial "next on Bentley level" made it even worse. According to the dealer association, since 2016 JLR dealers in Germany made investments of 160 million Euro. And they need to continue to do so, as they signed contracts. But those were based on now obsolete plans. The former expecations were 10,000 yearly Jaguar sales with further increases. The Jaguar dealers have an investment protection, so dealership terminations would be expensive. There is a huge difference between premium and luxury dealeships. Bentley has 12 dealerships in Germany.

The second article is from three days ago. With the title: Double Interview Jaguar Land Rover: "Fundamentally different requirements"

Taking part are the German JLR manager and a dealer representative. The dealer representative said 2021 was a difficult year. And they fear that 22 will not get better. Asked "Are traders ready to invest further?" he answers "The problem for traders is that the conditions have changed fundamentally since the investment agreements were made. The sales expectations are completely different than five years ago."

Another question is "The market expectation as part of the CI investments was initially 10,000 new cars at Jaguar, now Jaguar is significantly less than half. If the brand wants to go into the luxury segment, as announced by JLR boss Thierry Bollore, there are significantly fewer."

The JLR manager answers with "We have clearly positioned Jaguar for the future. After 2025, the brand will be more luxurious and purely electric. Jaguar has always been the smaller brand, and the current situation shows that you can also achieve a good return with less volume. We also have two brands: Jaguar and Land Rover. We want to undertake the journey with both brands together with our dealers. But first we want to overcome the semiconductor crisis. Only when we know the facts, we want to take the next steps."

The dealer representatives answer is a bit shorter "It is a huge problem for the dealers that they cannot assess the situation at Jaguar."

The manager is then asked "Luxury brands have significantly smaller networks. Do you want to keep the current network size of 91 dealerships when Jaguar becomes a Bentley competitor?"

His answer is "We will announce our plans in due course. But we plan to go into the future together with our dealers. The physical experience is very important to our brands, although we cannot give an existence guarantee to our retailers. Of course you can always find a hair in the soup. The decisive factor is that the cards at Jaguar Land Rover are on the table. In 2030, every model will have an all-electric variant. The first new all-electric model will be the Range Rover in 2024."


I made some parts bold... not that hair is the predominent content of the soup that dealers need to stomach.
Goof find. The dealers' patience will soon run out and the lawyers will be sent in. It's just a matter then of how much JLR will be sued for damages, potentially €billions - whether the Dual Arch etc thing was just poor management or deceit/fraud - cockup or conspiracy.

If the latter can be proven, then it's good night JLR - the whole thing, not just JLR Deutschland.

While JLR is mired in stuff going back to 2013, with Dual Arch, Speth's moonshot for full-line Jaguar, and JLR at 1 million units/yr global by 2018-2020, the world is about equally 9 years ahead of JLR, with landmark 500 mile EVs:


The 2016 F-Pace with a squashed roof, 'I-Pace', now seems as old as, well, 6 years. Its real range at 70 mph in around 60 degrees F is around 200 miles..

This could also be why TSLA dropped so much last Friday - Moloney(usual Irish spelling of Tom's name) hinted at this figure on the InsideEVs podcast on Friday - see below from 40:45 - that driving at 70 mph took longer to drain the battery than a flight from NJ to UK - i.e., ~7h x 70 mph = 490 miles, plus he did this test some time ago, and word may have leaked out.


Later in that podcast, Tom also mentions that Mercedes appear to have pulled the EQS he was just about to do the same test for. I wonder why? Obviously Mercedes highups got freaked out by the then becoming known Lucid's figure. The EQS ('580' dual motor) would probably have done 400 miles, maybe low 400s. Look like so much pig iron now - the engineers will be told to find +10% by hook or crook, immediately.

Lucid has reset the game, like Rivian has done for posh, 'adventure' pickups, and the soon SUV version.

Tesla who? Why would you buy a Plaid Model S for maybe 0.5 seconds less 0-60 when you could have a Lucid Air for same or less money? JLR who? Oh yeah, the outfit that lists a 200 mile range EV slower than a Model 3 with no back seat for $100k - HSE spec.

I can't stand why EVs are pushed - the CAGW thing - but I admire the engineering, from Lucid, Rivian, Porsche Taycan, iX, and no doubt others to come - the new BEV XC90/Polestar 3?

You can almost hear the sound of those claimed 30,000 orders for the New Range Rover being torn up, many of which will have come from the US, and many from California. An EV that can do LA to San Fran in one go, legitimately, with fuel at over $5/gal, and the Range Rover V8 doing maybe 15 mpg tops, so around $300 fuel cost for a round trip, is a true gamechanger, a true, huge disruptor.

If Tesla looks old hat, a spent force, with Lucid, Rivian, arguably the iX, Taycan, and probably new Volvo/Polestar EV SUV, what does that make JLR? Prehistoric? Irrelevant surely.
 

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The dealers' patience will soon run out and the lawyers will be sent in.
In the interview, the dealer sounded quite unhappy. The JLR manager more like a politician. The dealer situation will be similar everywhere.

The EQS ('580' dual motor) would probably have done 400 miles, maybe low 400s.
That is exactly the expected result for the Mercedes. Edmunds reached 422 miles, with that the EQS was far in front. For the Lucid Air a much higher range was promised, so it should better reach that.

If Tesla looks old hat, a spent force, with Lucid, Rivian, arguably the iX, Taycan, and probably new Volvo/Polestar EV SUV, what does that make JLR? Prehistoric? Irrelevant surely.
Even if none of the Tesla models is my cup of tea, and I see them as a far too big bubble, I would not count them off. What should this up to now in tiny numbers produced Lucid Air Dream Edition mean for the whole market? It costs 170,000$... Everything moves quickly, Tesla will give an answer to that. And building cars is not so easy, as new players like Lucid and Rivian will know and/or learn too.

I just read the i4 vs Polestar 2 comparison from Top Gear. They preferred the Polestar to the Tesla Model 3, now the i4 is in front.
 

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Some weeks ago, BMW was dead for you because of Tesla. Now Tesla is dead, because of Lucid. Range Rover is dead anyway, because of Rivian. Now Mercedes should even be "ashamed", because of a Lucid (that has a tiny volume, bigger battery and a 170,000$ pricetag).

And so on, and so on. Before you get too exited - not that you will buy such cars anyway - maybe you should inform yourself a bit more. Or the result is like watching the video from that Viking... just a waste of time for me.
 

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Some weeks ago, BMW was dead for you because of Tesla. Now Tesla is dead, because of Lucid. Range Rover is dead anyway, because of Rivian. Now Mercedes should even be "ashamed", because of a Lucid (that has a tiny volume, bigger battery and a 170,000$ pricetag).

And so on, and so on. Before you get too exited - not that you will buy such cars anyway - maybe you should inform yourself a bit more. Or the result is like watching the video from that Viking... just a waste of time for me.
Okay... . The whole point is EV is fast changing. Mercedes should absolutely be ashamed. The EQS is a dud. Lucid absolutely is an engineering triumph. Rivian absolutely is the 1970s Range Rover of our period. BMW absolutely has shown its engineering skills with the iX. Tesla absolutely is in trouble as the '10 years ahead' thing.

The fact that there's so little comment on the Lucid range thing across the internet/media shows that most people are in shock or denial, their world turned upside down.

The obvious thing to do would be to buy them, but who can afford that? For Tesla, who could afford it, to buy Rivian or Lucid would destroy the whole Tesla thing.
 
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