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After reading here for some time, I have now finally registered myself. I do not own a Jaguar - had one some time ago - so maybe I do not belong here. And I am really not interesting enough to make a Welcome message. But I guess that I am one of the signs why Jaguar ist not selling much. I really like the brand, but the only model that I think about buying now is a Mk2. That is worthless for the company, but the new stuff leaves me cold. I am a bit sorry about that. Given the choice between any Tesla and I-Pace, I would choose the Jag. But that is more a sign that Tesla is not my cup of tea. It seems that I sit in the same boat as BMVIrep in this regard.

As a German, I should like the idea, that Tesla is building a factory here. But my impression is more: who should buy that stuff? I do not see how they can compete longer term. That Ford is building an EV on a VW platform in Cologne makes much more sense for me.

A range of future EV Jags from 2025 on sounds good, but if the BMW cooperation plays a real role in there, concrete signs should arise soon. If there were ones I have missed them. Interesting times ahead, I hope that Jaguar will find a good way.

If I am not too curious... BMVIrep, you sometimes post German articles. Fine for me ;) Do you understand the language, or do you use a translator?

PS. My username should be a bit funny... I do not like Sauerkraut. But compared to both world wars, I am fine to be associated with something like that.
 

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After reading here for some time, I have now finally registered myself. I do not own a Jaguar - had one some time ago - so maybe I do not belong here. And I am really not interesting enough to make a Welcome message. But I guess that I am one of the signs why Jaguar ist not selling much. I really like the brand, but the only model that I think about buying now is a Mk2. That is worthless for the company, but the new stuff leaves me cold. I am a bit sorry about that. Given the choice between any Tesla and I-Pace, I would choose the Jag. But that is more a sign that Tesla is not my cup of tea. It seems that I sit in the same boat as BMVIrep in this regard.

As a German, I should like the idea, that Tesla is building a factory here. But my impression is more: who should buy that stuff? I do not see how they can compete longer term. That Ford is building an EV on a VW platform in Cologne makes much more sense for me.

A range of future EV Jags from 2025 on sounds good, but if the BMW cooperation plays a real role in there, concrete signs should arise soon. If there were ones I have missed them. Interesting times ahead, I hope that Jaguar will find a good way.

If I am not too curious... BMVIrep, you sometimes post German articles. Fine for me ;) Do you understand the language, or do you use a translator?

PS. My username should be a bit funny... I do not like Sauerkraut. But compared to both world wars, I am fine to be associated with something like that.
Welcome to the forum 😊
Your command of the English language reminds me of an erstwhile member from a few years ago. He was fortunate inasmuch that he like me bought an early XF which at the time was a real pleasure to own. All down hill from then on I am afraid. ☹
In the early days The German used the name The Kraut 🤣

 

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Thanks for the welcome. I do not take myself too seriously, so I have even enhanced the Kraut moniker. Sauer means sour (with the cabbage), and also mad. If anyone ever takes this seriously, Oktoberfest would have been a better choice.

I have searched a bit, as the BMW EV roadmap for the next years is now quite clear. They make huge investments, but I found nothing new about the JLR EV cooperation that was mentioned in 2019. In my imagination, a BMW base to enable them to build a cheaper competitor to the Porsche Taycan and Taycan Cross Turismo would be something... but maybe it is good that someone like me has nothing to say anyway. With fond memories they can not pay any wages. Jaguar becomes more and more "forgotten", they need to change that asap.
 

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I have searched a bit, as the BMW EV roadmap for the next years is now quite clear. They make huge investments, but I found nothing new about the JLR EV cooperation that was mentioned in 2019. In my imagination, a BMW base to enable them to build a cheaper competitor to the Porsche Taycan and Taycan Cross Turismo would be something... but maybe it is good that someone like me has nothing to say anyway. With fond memories they can not pay any wages. Jaguar becomes more and more "forgotten", they need to change that asap.
As I've said, the 'BMW-JLR Partnership' was a lie.

There was a grain of truth - up until Harald Krueger fell over, and the BMW supervisory board used that as an excuse to get rid of him.

Krueger must have done some verbal agreements with Speth - Project Jennifer, around 2016, and now we can surmise, around say late 2018, the desperately needed replacement for Ingenium - Euro 7 looming just accelerated JLR's desperate need. The recenly made public latest devlopment of 'B48', would have been the engine Speth wanted, in this 'Partnership'.

New CEO Zipse killed all that stone dead - as any sane person would have done.

What was in it for BMW? Nothing. There was no Partnership, meeting of somewhat equals.

That is why news on the JLR front, these last weeks/months, has been basically zero.

The only thing of real note to report is that PR boss Hallett seems to be flinging money at Rupert Murdoch's organisation like it's going out of fashion, probably with an eye to jump ship.

The ship is rudderless. Bollore has a lower profile than even Speth had.

Bollore must know he was sold a pup - a bag of lies - and now has zero options.

He could resign, if he is honourable, like Guenter Butschek did a while back, from Tata Motors.

JLR is a zombie, kept alive only to stop mortal damage to the regime/establishment it fronts for, acts as a 'world-beating' posterboy for, propaganda tool for.

If it formally falls over, even the most average person will start to realise they've been lied to - massively and chronically, by all the agencies of state, BBC, 'Royals' etc, the fourth estate, the media, of course, the forces of 'law and order', the police involved directly in the 2017 Jaguar Heist for just one example, the courts, ignoring JLR's leading role in emissions cheating, all of Whitehall too of course, 'the great and good' basically.

The hit would be too much - so they prop it up at all cost - to the ordinary UK taxpayer.

It's not a car company, It's a political tool. Lada to the Soviet regime of the 70s on steroids.

Bollore hasn't a clue what he's got himself in to. Resign, take the payoff, and run, you berk.
 

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I am an engineer, but I have never worked in the automotive industry. If I have any contacts there, they belong to Mercedes and Audi. So I have no insider informations. If there is any kind of relation, only BMW makes sense for JLR. I think that there are two different aspects...

That JLR will use BMW engines for the Range Rover, Defender, whatever, was always fishy for me. That was a typical Autocar story, but that was it. As far as I know, there was never anything official... always a good sign to store something in the fantasy drawer.

The EV partnership is different to that. Two years ago, that was announced by BMW and JLR.

A quote from that time: "BMW and Jaguar Land Rover said they will save costs through shared development, production planning and joint purchasing of electric car components. Both companies will produce electric drivetrains in their own manufacturing facilities, BMW said."

That "BMW said" is something, there were also quotes from a BMW board member.

That for me is a difference... the first one is now maybe a failed Autocar kind of story, and you are right with that. But the EV side seems to be different to that. At least I hope so, I fail to see the alternatives.

But even if this is not dead, then comes your aspect (quote from you):
"What was in it for BMW? Nothing. There was no Partnership, meeting of somewhat equals."

That is right. That VW gives Ford their new EV platform makes sense for both, as Ford builds commercial vehicles for VW.

BMW is able to invest 30 billion Euros during the next five years, they should be fine with what they can do on their own. As a part of that, they build a new car plant in Hungary (EV only). BMW and Morgan will hardly make any sense for BMW, from a financial point of view. But I guess that BMW will have no problem to help Morgan with an EV, if there is the interest to do that. But on a different scale, with their newest developments? BMW says, that they now develop stuff that comes to the market in 10 years. It seems that they know what they are doing. How would any kind of partnership with JLR fit into that? No idea, but never say never. Two years ago, at least there was more than just some hot air.

So that are those questions I find interesting... what is really going on is hopefully more than we know. We know basically nothing. Jaguar has a range of hardly selling cars, and four more years to come with those. The time will come, when every sale of one of those is a little miracle. I really like Jaguar, have to repeat that, as that sounded very negative now.

I am 49 years old, able to buy a new car. I am not the youtube generation, but I have watched videos about the Mercedes EQS and Porsche Taycan with interest. Such cars give me a "I like that" or even "really impressive" feeling. Maybe not a huge surprise. Unlike every new Jaguar (or Tesla), they have a "want" factor for me. If Jaguar has nothing in their pipeline, they can hardly make a call in China in some months and say "Ooops, we have noticed that we need an EV platform. Can we have yours, please?". It seems that they really need a cooperation, they should have already secured that. The only visible card on the table was the BMW one, as long as there is no official failure announcement, I press my thumbs for that. I hope, there are things going on behind closed doors, that enable Jaguar to show something that interests the public (me, you, everyone) soon. But I would not really bet on that, for my taste there is a bit too much silence.
 

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But, but... , the Norman Wisdom guy on Carwow - even the Croation Rimac fellow was ripping his awful accent/diction - JLR's CFO, Mardell, has also just said the same to 'top' financial analysts and journos - he wouldn't lie, that's a serious criminal offence, he'd have the FCA and SFO breathing down his neck - and the whole of the UK and US media have said that The Icon is the most in-demand thing evah!, with a one year waiting list, and lucky-lucky owners able to name their price for reselling/flipping:


- so who lied? Er, everybody.

So, where are Dick of the Yard's goons, to arrest Mardell, Bollore, and the other members of the 'F'wit Four/Five' - Glover, Hallett, Midget McGovern?

'Sought after Defender 90 in best colour combination. Huge waiting list for these.'

- maybe on Mars/Venus/Planet Zog - where JLR is genuinely world-beating, and The Icon is out of this world - not Earth.

The guy has singed fingers - more like third degree burns, thinking he could make a flipping killing, on yet another 'JLR Stunner' - just like all those flippers who made fortunes on The Gamechanger, almost 3 years ago - NOT.

50730


50731


- either way, the genius flipper/mug, is looking at a loss on his 'investment' of at least £10k - that car could easily be £60k rrp with options.

No wonder Spaffer and the gang want everyone - but them - to stay on Prison Island, and buy lots of new cars, to travel to £1,500/week holiday let hovels.

UK's greed is only exceeded by its insanity.
 

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'One year waiting list for The Icon', BUT, it, Land Rover, and JLR sunk without trace in the once thee overseas market - JRA etc:


- something doesn't add up.

Land Rover almost overtaken by Porsche in Australia! - genuine, long since passed.

Volvo outselling L/Rover almost 2:1.

MG out of sight, of its once mighty owners - BL/Austin Rover/MG Rover.

No wonder 'They' want to tell the UK plebs that JLR has the hottest selling car/thing, ever, on the planet - because the truth is the exact opposite - Communism.

Why pay the equivalent of £60k or more, when you have a fully loaded Ford Ranger, with around £10k to spare.

If you want a posh, faux offroader, you buy a G-Class, or an X5 45e, or anything else, besides a £60k 2-door with a diesel engine made by JLR.

Only the Home Counties headbangers/flippers buy The Icon - and its frocked sisters, the Disco5/RRSport/Full-fat.
 

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German dealers take JLR to court:


- and get their injunction.

Just a symptom of the complete breakdown of the relationship between JLR and the German dealers, caused by the coming together of being forced to pay out millions in Dual Arch, and then see real sales collapse - now going on 5 years.

As I've said, JLR is only a UK thing, and then only Home Counties, Cotswolds, S.Warks, and N.Yorks.

Otherwise of course, zero news of, about, from JLR. Bollore disappeared again, likewise the New Range Rover.

No Royal Weddings in the offing either. What to do? Brenda encouraged to hurry up and pop her clogs - state funeral with wall to wall Range Rover coverage.

Nothing else is going to save it now.
 

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BMW - the anti-JLR. It would be like matter partnering with anti-matter.

BMW - under-promise, massively over-deliver - walk softly, carry a big stick.

JLR - strand Norwegians on the highway with 7% SoC, and get your paid shills to blame the blogger.

Tad of a difference in philosophy between the two companies/peoples.

If BMW can do this, a silk purse from a sow's ear, imagine what they can do with their real EVs:


Test av rekkevidde BMW iX3


450 km rekkevidde for testbil* (WLTP)

556.2 km rekkevidde målt sommeren 2021

432 km rekkevidde målt vinteren 2021



BMW partner with JLR on EV? Only the insane would believe that - so 99%+ of Brits.
 

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Seems clear as day to me that the only things going on at the outfit masquerading as a car company are:

  • Hallett/Glover/Hallett&Glover chucking tens of million of our taxpayers pounds at Rupert Murdoch, to buy their next jobs
  • the pretence of being a car company has completely gone
  • its true, nasty, rabid nature has come fully to the surface, attacking innocent, actually favourable to the brand/product bloggers(through its army of paid shills), who expose how appalling, and dangerous, its products are, and resort, like all lowlife shyster scum eventually, to the courts - other gangsters in wigs

Jaguar Hits Ball-Bearing Makers With Cartel Damages Suit


- they tried this with Ratcliffe - Ineos - but because he could afford the 'finest' - most vermin liars-for-hire - too, they lost.

The above headline is a joke, a 'what the...? ', but to these scum, it's the last, final, obvious resort, of 'people' who are used to living on someone else's teat, and know they have the full UK regime at their backs - the 'law', Plod, vermin media, politicians, vermin in wigs, etc.

They're the nigfhtmare spoiled brats, but in 35-55 year old bodies - like five year old Spaffer, refusing to pay a penny for anything - psychopaths are uselss in a normal functioning society/world.

Like mad, bad dogs, the only thing to do is put them down.
 

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The JLR dealer situation is especially dire here in Germany, but every dealer worldwide who invested in a new shiny Jaguar showroom some years ago will question that now. Investments from everyone were made on that "BMW chaser" strategy, with higher volumes/turnover projections.

Now there is the new, cunning Porsche or Bentley chaser strategy. With no real indication of what that should really mean... for potential customers and dealers, maybe not even the manufacturer really knows it. That can not go on for much longer, every day counts. I am waiting for the day when I look here and find something concrete: A Jaguar strategy, partnership, new car announcement.

BMW is now very serious with their EV strategy, the massive VW investments, plus all the others. How much of the EV market share Tesla will still have in two or three years will be interesting. But Jaguar wants to target a higher market segment next. One of the problems if they want to challenge Porsche is Porsche. Same with Bentley. The Porsche and Bentley parent Volkswagen invests 35 billion Euros alone for their EV strategy from 2021 to 2025, with total investments of 150 billion Euros during that time period.
Here is a German article about the VW investment strategy
Any kind of too little, too late result will not be enough for Jaguar. They need a partnership, as VW will not be interested my only bet remains BMW. I fail to see any other possible partner that fits to their new luxury market ambitions.
 

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Any kind of too little, too late result will not be enough for Jaguar.
There is no 'Jaguar' - killed c.2016-2018.

There is no 'JLR car company'.

There is, only, a desperate attempt by Tata to push the Tata Motors share price to the sky, on the 'strength' of the 'stuuning, rebounding success' of JLR - '1 year waiting list for Icon' etc - and then try to flog it to morons - UK Ultras/headbangers - with a stock market flotation.

This has been the only plan, purpose in life, of 'JLR' since early 2019, when Tata's none too subtle attempts to trade-sale flog it, all came to nought.

There is no car company, normal car-making, -designing, -engineering, and -developing activity.

Hence no news - real news - these last 2 years or so. 'The Icon' was 90% finished with the launch of the Disco5 in 2017.

New Range Rover is dead - BMW withdrew their 'Project Jennifer' V8.

I-Pace was just a bodged 2016 F-Pace(shrunken 2012 full-fat/RRSport) - 5 years ago, for god's sake.

Once the reality of Permanent Lockdown hits the plebs, who still, 99% plus, believe puppets like Spaffer, Merkel, Biden etc, and that the 'New Normal' is actually crushing poverty, subsistence, if not outright wiping out, then the sugar-high of global stock markets, and hence Tata's opportunity to get JLR, possibly, IPO'd, will go.
 

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Speaking to somebody today who was interested in placing an order for a short wheelbase Defender. They were told “place an order today and delivery will be December” It is difficult to see how JLR can survive much longer with this example of customer service.
 

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I few days ago I received an invitation by e-mail from Jaguar UK to participate in a virtual tennis tournament. JLR is the official car supplier of the Wimbledon tennis championships, and they want to celebrate it this way. As you say, no car company but a lot of PR.
 

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I few days ago I received an invitation by e-mail from Jaguar UK to participate in a virtual tennis tournament. JLR is the official car supplier of the Wimbledon tennis championships, and they want to celebrate it this way. As you say, no car company but a lot of PR.
Andy Murray used to be a Jaguar Ambassador - driving the F-Pace conspicuously into Wimbledon - what seems like decades ago.

Whatever happened to him - touched with the Jag Amb. curse?

I'd call JLR a virtual car compnay, but that would be overstating it. Instead of vitually no news, there is literally zero news from JLR - the most reported about non-thing on the planet, ever.
 

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I few days ago I received an invitation by e-mail from Jaguar UK to participate in a virtual tennis tournament. JLR is the official car supplier of the Wimbledon tennis championships, and they want to celebrate it this way. As you say, no car company but a lot of PR.
He traded it in for :
🤣
 

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Instead of vitually no news, there is literally zero news from JLR
And that is really strange. Not even Autocar - who are able to turn the slightest JLR rumour into a breaking news story - have anything to say. Maybe JLR are just magnificent mystery-mongers, and we will be surprised soon. Hopefully in a positive way.

If the first BMW based Jaguar EV model appears here, I will compose a suitable "I told you so" self-adulation ;) But I still would not take any bets on that, everything is really obscure.
 

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And that is really strange. Not even Autocar - who are able to turn the slightest JLR rumour into a breaking news story - have anything to say. Maybe JLR are just magnificent mystery-mongers, and we will be surprised soon. Hopefully in a positive way.

If the first BMW based Jaguar EV model appears here, I will compose a suitable "I told you so" self-adulation ;) But I still would not take any bets on that, everything is really obscure.
Another week starts, and no news.

JLR is not alive. It's as dead as the most inert rock. The only people interested in JLR should be geologists.

You can't keep something in stasis forever.

JLR is the new Spitfire - never shall die, always soaring over the White Cliffs, Britain forever stuck in 1940/2012-2016 - JLR's 'Stunning' phase.

'They', the masters of the universe - media, puppet pols, Whitehall, the 'Law' etc - forget that even the massively brainwashed wartime Brits had had enough of 'Fight them on the Beaches' by May 1945 - when the warmonger Churchill was swept from power, and people wanted homes, and food, and a quiet, normal life, not Spitfires and munition factories.

Same sh!t with JLR. The 'Spitfires soared' for about five years, ~2011-2016, and now, all except the Ultras, in the Home Counties and so on, the world has had enough, of the BS - 'Gamecanger', 'Icon', 'Stunning', 'Orgasmic', and of course, JLR, like Blighty and the Spitfire, won the war - 'world-beating JLR/Britain'

The average pleb just wants some normality, an end to the fear porn, and relentless BS/lies form the media/regime, on Sunlit Uplands, Empire 2.0, Mutant strains, and World-beating posterchildren, who are anything but.

The rest of the world/car industry, moves on - 'winning the peace':

- Daimler CEO Kallenius going for the luxury/high performance/electric jugular - like an LMVH group being born within the car industry:


VAG already on 'E-tron 2.0' - the replacement, successor for 'The T'urd' - which has sold like hot cakes - because it was so good - 'Q8 e-tron':


- will probably be on the 'PPE' Porsche/Audi platform, and so be cheaper to make than the truly bespoke, developed without regard to cost(Dieselgate) original E-tron SUV.

Real car companies doing real things - not 1940 Spitfires and 2011 Evoques.
 
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