XF Forum banner

Tesla will triumph in the end

  • No way, the project is doomed.

    Votes: 12 29.3%
  • Tesla products will be a success

    Votes: 29 70.7%

  • Total voters
    41
2641 - 2660 of 2683 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,985 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,643
So you think yet another incident of a driver going at 3 times the speed limit, crashing his Tesla, so violently that he took out several large trees and dying will change anything?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,281 Posts
'Alarmingly, Ty Russell from CBS 4 Miami reported that: "Police say officers tried to save the driver but couldn’t open the door because there was not a handle."'

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-24/tesla-slams-tree-florida-bursting-flames-and-killing-driver

Tesla's charmed life of 2010-2018 is over, analogue to the other media/PR outfit, JLR.
Reading the article and related text, one thing surprised me. Americans often say: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people". Apparently that is not true of cars:

"A @Tesla crashes into a tree and bursts into flames in Davie on Flamingo Rd."
"Witnesses say that the Tesla was "traveling at a high rate of speed" prior to the crash."
"Recall that in May of this year, two teens were killed after their Tesla sped into a wall in Fort Lauderdale, Florida."

So when we talk about cars, the roles are reversed: People don't speed, cars speed. People don't crash, cars crash. To be fair, one Tweet does say it the right way:

"Firefighters finally able in last 2 hrs to fully douse the flames of a #Tesla that burst into a fireball when its driver crashed YESTERDAY."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,985 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,645
one thing surprised me. Americans often say: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people". Apparently that is not true of cars:
No one in America thinks anyone is at fault for the accident other than then driver, who chose to speed, then proceeded to leave the pavement and smash a bunch of trees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,348 Posts
Gimcrack car for cultists/morons:


It's not the tyres - the e-tron had the same tyre, and was around two-thirds quieter.

Nor is it the profile. Since when does low profile - 30 v 55 - equal more noise for the same tyre, tread pattern etc? The e-tron's tyres were wider.

The car is a lash up, done on the cheap. The e-tron weighs so much because it's a car, not a toy/joke, and has hundreds of kilos alone of sound deadening, battery/motors isolation, body treatment etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
This is classic troll boy, when Jags are heavy it is lack of engineering, when Audi's are heavy it's engineering excellence, what a joke. Call the Audi what it is, a ****.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,985 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,648
Gimcrack car for cultists/morons:

[video=youtube;GzQdkwmq78s]
Nor is it the profile. Since when does low profile - 30 v 55 - equal more noise for the same tyre, tread pattern etc? .
Seriously? You have to ask?

235/35 = 8 cm of rubber and air between rim and road.
255//55 = 14 cm of rubber and ar between rim and road or 75% (seventy five percent more)

In addition, the cabin of an SUV like the E-Tron is more than double the distance from the road than the cabin of the Model 3.

Not sure there is a person on the planet who does not understand that a performance model, low to the ground with very low profile tires is noisier than a crossover, high to the ground and with high profile tires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,348 Posts
Seriously? You have to ask?

235/35 = 8 cm of rubber and air between rim and road.
255//55 = 14 cm of rubber and ar between rim and road or 75% (seventy five percent more)

In addition, the cabin of an SUV like the E-Tron is more than double the distance from the road than the cabin of the Model 3.

Not sure there is a person on the planet who does not understand that a performance model, low to the ground with very low profile tires is noisier than a crossover, high to the ground and with high profile tires.
The e-tron I believe Bjorn drove was air suspended, so drops down at higher speeds, and yet the gap at 120 km/h is still 5 dB plus to the Model 3. Also, the e-tron is half as heavy again as the Model 3, and was on slightly wider tyres, both which should generate more noise.

Okay, the lower profile doesn't help, but the 5-7 dB difference isn't just down to that. The Model 3 is around 3 dB noisier - twice as loud - as the e-tron, like for like on tyres, as I'm sure Bjorn's later test will show.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,985 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,650
All that is immaterial.

Tesla just announced a move to 100% on-line sales, 1 week/1,500KM free return period when buying if not satisfied, AND, killer pricing:

$35,000 (before incentives) = 220mi EPA, 5.6s 0-60, 130MPH, full glass roof, etc.
$37,000 (before incentives) = 240mi EPA, 5.3s 0-60, 140MPH, semi-premium interior
$40,000 (before incentives) = 264mi EPA, 5.2s 0-60, 140MPH, premium interior
$43,000 (before incentives) = 325mi EPA, 5.0s 0-60, 140MPH, premium interior
$47,000 (before incentives) = 310mi EPA, 4.5s 0-60, 145MPH, premium interior, AWD
$58,000 (before incentives) = 310mi EPA, 3.2s 0-60, 162MPH, premium interior, AWD, performance, Taycan destroying performance for 1/3 the price


$43K, with 325mi EPA range and premium interior is an absolutely destroyer for the competition.

$37K with semi-premium interior and 240mi EPA range is a killer at the low end.

The oxygen for the legacy OEMs is leaving the room.When the Model Y SUV joins the range in 2 years at similar price points, it will be painful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,348 Posts
The oxygen for the legacy OEMs is leaving the room.When the Model Y SUV joins the range in 2 years at similar price points, it will be painful.
never mind 2 years, Tesla is in a neck and neck race with JLR to be the first official bankruptcy of the 2019- Carmageddon II:

https://insideevs.com/tesla-slashes-model-3-s-x-price-china/

The Model X and S aren't selling - up to 50,000 $/€ off - and the Model 3 is not exactly hot cakes either.

Why would that be? Could it be that the e-tron, pre-orders, orders and deliveries in a couple of weeks, plus huge orders/demand for the Taycan has killed off these 'dinosaurs' - to use your legacy terminology?

Of course it is. The EV market has already bifurcated. High end and high value - Taycan and Kona/VW ID.

The Teslas, especially the Model X and S, have been found out - way overpriced for what they are - one-trick, ludicrous ponies.

The Model 3 has been butchered by straddling these two pillars of EV - ~$60k. Hence the desperate rush to announce a $35k car.

The Kona/Niro and just 6 months away VW ID have made most non-cultist people realise that there's no reason for a bog standard EV to cost $50, 60, 70k.

But, the Model 3, 'Performance' etc, Model X/S, don't have the profile to be high-end EVs either.

Porsche does, certainly $100k+, which the Taycan will cost. And the e-tron/Sportback, has enough quality, luxury, and dealer/manufacturer support to get $80-100k.

You see, this EV business was about pricing all along, just like ICE, 'legacy', 'non-disruptor' etc.

Tesla wasn't Apple and the iphone. EVs are just an overpriced car, until now, for 90% of the population - cultists will be cultists.

VW spotted this around 4 years ago - to get an EV Golf type car to around medium to well spec'd Golf type prices, and still make a profit - a small one compared to a €30k Golf, with €3-5k profit margin.

Tesla was just another marketing scam, trying to convince the feeble of mind that there was something there that wasn't - the X factor, esoteric knowledge, that no one else had.

Tesla and Musk have now been exposed as mortal, engaged in a desperate bid to stay alive, just like you know who.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,985 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,652
never mind 2 years, Tesla is in a neck and neck race with JLR to be the first official bankruptcy of the 2019- Carmageddon II:
OK. So should we add you to the roster, along with Philocd and Jagular, of punters predicting that Tesla "will be bankrupt before the end of the year".

You know they failed in 2016. Failed in 2017. Failed in 2018. Now it is your turn to fail in 2019 with the "bankrupt before the end of the year" prediction.

Carry on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,348 Posts
OK. So should we add you to the roster, along with Philocd and Jagular, of punters predicting that Tesla "will be bankrupt before the end of the year".

You know they failed in 2016. Failed in 2017. Failed in 2018. Now it is your turn to fail in 2019 with the "bankrupt before the end of the year" prediction.

Carry on.
A blind man could have seen Tesla and Musk were jokes. It and he, though, like JLR in the UK, are political, not economic, financial.

He, Musk, is the posterboy for the AGW, Saving the Planet, EV brainwashing thing. 'They', the powers that be, will only let him and Tesla go if they absolutely have to.

Thing is, like JLR, the true situation at Tesla is so bad - car companies gone bad devour money like nothing else - that it's becoming impossible to hold it together.

Old Musky is behaving like a cockroach capitalist, as he cuts his employees off at the knees, avoiding redundancy pay:

https://electrek.co/2019/03/02/tesla-cut-employee-compensation-layoff/

There was nothing New Paradigm, Disruptor about Musk, just another scam artist, flaky, welfare queen, who's been found out by the reality of making things in numbers to a set cost.

Arson/insurance?:

https://electrek.co/2019/03/02/tesla-store-fire-uk/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
Did anyone see the guy from Polestar doing a comparison of the power point Polestar 2 against the Tesla Model 3? ...Less than 24 hours before Tesla announces the $35K Model 3 and loads of price cuts cuts along the range. Leaving the Polestar either more poorly equipped or more expensive and at least a year away (without the inevitable delays, call it 18 months to be fair, but possibly two years).

It was classic timing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
783 Posts
A blind man could have seen Tesla and Musk were jokes. It and he, though, like JLR in the UK, are political, not economic, financial.

He, Musk, is the posterboy for the AGW, Saving the Planet, EV brainwashing thing. 'They', the powers that be, will only let him and Tesla go if they absolutely have to.

Thing is, like JLR, the true situation at Tesla is so bad - car companies gone bad devour money like nothing else - that it's becoming impossible to hold it together.

Old Musky is behaving like a cockroach capitalist, as he cuts his employees off at the knees, avoiding redundancy pay:

https://electrek.co/2019/03/02/tesla-cut-employee-compensation-layoff/

There was nothing New Paradigm, Disruptor about Musk, just another scam artist, flaky, welfare queen, who's been found out by the reality of making things in numbers to a set cost.

Arson/insurance?:

https://electrek.co/2019/03/02/tesla-store-fire-uk/
Err the blind will be anyone who thinks that the establishment are on Tesla's side rather than on the side of big oil. You can't possibly think that the US political class is not slightly biased towards their pay masters (big oil), you can't possibly. If it wasn't for big oil, the AGW debate would never have been a debate, and the whole thing would have been settled in the 70s rather than there still being a tiny bunch of morons who won't (and can't in some cases) understand the very simple science.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,985 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,656
Meanwhile.....

In the real world.....

Tesla is unveiling and starting reservations for Model Y SUV on March 14th for production in 2H/2020, and will launch Supercharger v3 as well.

Sure looks like they are going out of business. Not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,985 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,657
That's gotta hurt....

Tesla Model 3 outselling the mighty A4 and 3 series by more than 2 to 1 to take 1st spot in premium sedan sales IN EUROPE.


40-1024x768.jpg





P.S. Tesla Model 3 outselling the Jaguar XE by more than 8 to 1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,348 Posts
Gone quiet, as in nada, on the Model 3 deliveries hoopla front. Is this why?:

Norway
Mar 2019 - 5,315 units delivered
April 1-29 - 699.

It's almost as if Musky boy fabricated March's figures, globally, for Q1 results - which we know now would have been terminal for any normal company.

What happened to all that 'pent up' demand for the 'Game-changer'? '10,000 units/week', etc?

With just over a day to go, the ancient, 'fossil', 'compliance' eGolf is selling almost as well as the 'paradigm shift' Model 3:

631 units registered.

https://elbilstatistikk.no/

The Model 3 is no different to a $50k/£40k BMW 3-Series - demand has collapsed, globally.

Musk's '10k/wk' EV/Planet-saver fantasy is no different to Speth's '1 million+ JLR'/'toe to toe with the Germans' in 2014/15.

Both ran into the brick wall reality of broke consumers, and under 30s not wanting cars.

The reality is car production is 100% over demand. Tesla, JLR, FCA?, Nissan? ... will be gone within 2 years, and even BMW, Daimler and maybe Hyundai-Kia will have to look to merge, with just VAG and Toyota, the Chinese and maybe 'US Car Corp' nationalised and surviving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,985 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,660
As explained in the earnings call and all publications, it is all about the shipping schedule. In order to try to satisfy Wall St's quarterly results demand, Tesla was sending early quarter production to Europe/Asia and late quarter production to North America. That made it a horrible delivery nightmare for customers and delivery centers. Plus Tesla failed miserably at it and ended up with 13K cars in transit at the end of the quarter.

They will now move to a process that smoothes out deliveries, which will have a near team impact.

Having said that, I agree that average selling prices have to come down faster than what Tesla anticipated - i.e. they need to move the product mix towards standard/mid range sooner rather than later.

We will have to wait till Q3 to see if they can do it profitably or not.
 
2641 - 2660 of 2683 Posts
Top