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Discussion Starter #1
Right, Newbie here, hello all.

Previously happy second-hand 3.0 X-Type and 2.7D S-Type owner and have fallen in love with the XF and am badgering the wife something stupid to let me get one as we are not rich it will be a major investment. I have saved £17k cash and am faced with several choices which I would like to share and receive any advice gratefully. Currently down to driving my wife's 5 year old Multipla......I know!

The key question is what model....Petrol or Diesel?

Well there are a few 4.2s around for early 30ks now and 3.0s for sub 30k. Of course the 4.2s will be 07 or 57 and I have heard of the new car issues (rather like pre 02 S-Type). Are early 4.2s bad or were people just unlucky. I will only do 8 to 10k per year in it so the Petrol Diesel pay-off isn't so important.

I was hoping to get one before, or in, early August 2009 so we could drive to Orkney in our new XF but don't know what the situation will be re:the new 3.0D. Demonstrators by then I suppose. The figures look very enticing on that, but it will be a new and untried engine.

I have seen people talk of remapping the 2.7D has anyone here done that, what can you remap it to BHP and MPG wise? Has it proven worth it? Or should I wait 8 months?

Then there is finance, being a salesman for 18 years before starting my own business 6 years ago I always got a new car every 2 or 3 years but now I have to pay for them I would be glad to hear what people thought of the alternatives, particularly lease finance where you pay £600 to £700 pcm and then hand it back, is that a good way forward? or as I am halfway there with cash should I persevere and save like mad and buy outright. Or a little of both? I have kids and always fear they will spill something horrible....

Apologies for the bombardment but I want to get it right first time and not regret anything. I have even considered a 2 year old XJ, but really want the XF as The Bowers and Wilkins,ipod compatibility and overall looks have swung the deal.

My dealer in Swindon have proven less than helpful so if anyone has any names of helpful dealers that would be useful too.

Thanks in advance
Chris
 

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Hello Chris,
Welcome to the forum :)
My word, that is a list :)
I will start by asking if you would be troubled by the DPF (see link below) issues that concern drivers of diesels covering little mileage. If not, I think I would say go with the 2.7 diesel. Yes, the 3 Litre is on the way, but at a higher price and perhaps a firmer one because of the demand.
Let's see what reaction my comments cause; it may help you to crystallize your thoughts with regard to your first question.
http://www.xfforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=517
 

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As a very recent purchaser myself, my answer to some of your queries... Only the 2.7 disel was in contention for me - I think I'm correct in saying that the 3.0 petrol is not popular probably on mpg grounds. If you can do a personal lease deal and you have all that money saved up, my inclination would be to get the best APR you can and go for the lease and then you can earn some interest on your invested cash. Be wary of PCPs at the moment - three years on, cars are not worth the value of the balloon payment so it's a nonsense to do anything other than hand the car back. Though I didn't end up buying from them, the dealership in Falmouth - Riders Jaguar - is very friendly and the sales director there - Duncan - couldn't be more pleasant. In the course of my search, I also came across Stratstone in Perth and another very pleasant and helpful gent called Bruce there. If you look around the used ones on the Jaguar website you will find you can get a lot of extra spec on your car that would add up to crazy figures if you bought it new, if you see what I mean. I purchased a car with 1800 miles on the clock with all those things you see listed at the foot of this page but I couldn't have afforded a new one with it all. Watch out for colours and interiors - all a matter of choice, of course, but the ivory leather is superb in terms of appearance and definitely has the edge on the truffle and barley which is standard in the PL. I suppose the ivory wouldn't be ideal with children, but then if they spill something, neither will the Barley be brilliant and you may need to go for black leather. If you like the lighter interiors you may want to get the interior treated with Autoglym Life Shine or one of the other protectant systems - don't let the dealer do it though as they'll charge twice what you need to pay. There are four different exterior grey colours Liquid Silver, Pearl Grey, Lunar Grey and Vapour Grey. You get very different impressions of these from the web - one is a bit brownish. My advice would be to avoid the 20 inch wheels. They look beautiful but they really do harden up the ride. Either of the 19 inch wheels look great but don't adversely affect the ride at all in my view. Are you going for the Premium Luxury? In my view each extra feature in the PL over the Luxury is well worth the money - it's unbelievable how convenient keyless entry is - but, as I say, each extra feature makes the PL worth going for. Well... I've strayed into areas your original post didn't ask for commets on. It's a lovely car and I have to say that I haven't experienced any of the issues that other forum members appear to be frustrated with - eg uncomfortable seating - (even if the lumbar support motors aren't actually working in my car at the moment!) Good luck!
Martin
 

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lilactime said:
Right, Newbie here, hello all.

Well there are a few 4.2s around for early 30ks now and 3.0s for sub 30k. Of course the 4.2s will be 07 or 57 and I have heard of the new car issues (rather like pre 02 S-Type). Are early 4.2s bad or were people just unlucky. I will only do 8 to 10k per year in it so the Petrol Diesel pay-off isn't so important.
my understanding from having just bought one is that the VX57 Reg cars are pre-launch ex-Jag Demo cars. the XF was officially launched in March '08 iirc

the one i'm getting is a 14k mile 3.0 Luxury with plenty of options. i'm gambling a little as as a Jag Demo it'll presumably have had a fairly hard life so far, but on the other hand i'd expect it to have been kept well as it would be rather embarassing for Jag's new car to fail in the hands of reviewers/customers.

i'm hoping it'll be just run in with niggles ironed out - we'll see how that goes:) .

gorgeous thing though, and in my time as a Jag owner previously i've had nothing but fantastic service all the way through
 

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Lilac, welcome. You have a treat in store!

Just to say about the upholstery protection (and the external ditto, come to that) - try to get the dealer to do it all for nothing; mine did, and that was when the lovely things had a six month waiting list!

I also agree that the PL extras are, in my opinion anyway, worth the extra money.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Wow Thanks all for the friendly advice.

I guess you are saying Ivory is worth the premium, particularly second hand. My only worry is that I want to install DVD headrests. I am guessing that an independant fitter would use the actual headrest so it wouldn't matter what colour it was, is that correct anybody?

Would it be true to say that a 57 car would have had all of it's niggles sorted by now, satnav, door seals, fuel filler etc. Particularly if it were an ex-demo, similarly an 08 demonstrator?
Bob, I am thinking along the same lines an ex-demo with up to 10k with all the knobs and whistles and Lunar Grey / Ivory, there are a couple on jaguar.co.uk at £31k with everything bar CATS 3.0PL.

Are 3.0 owners unhappy? I am not fussed about mpg as it will do so few miles. I guess Road Fund is a bit of a downer is that £400 pa?

I would still be happy to get advice re the remapping of the 2.7D engine, an obvious question is why do manufacturers put out such poorly managed engines if extra can be got with a few twiddles here and there?

Anyway thanks all, for your input so far, hopefully in a couple of months I will be here as a full member rather than an interloper. And I will have the photos to prove it. Now I am off to read up on "claying".
Chris
 

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lilactime said:
I would still be happy to get advice re the remapping of the 2.7D engine, Chris
I will be looking into possibilities with tuning units over the next weeks, in particular this one http://www.dieseltuning.co.uk/spider.html although i have to say that the std car only feels a little sluggish on mid range acceleration when it has 3-4 people in plus luggage. Power is pretty adeqaute most of the time.

With my car being a company lease one ECU remaps are out of the question

Most look as though they will give increases in BHP & Torque similar to the 3.0d. Previously i had a Steinbauer unit fitted to my BMW 520d which proved very efficient over 115k miles and my wife has a Tunit box on her Citroen C Crosser which has given better mid range punch.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi Paul

Thanks for that, did you tell your insurance company, what are the rules on that?

If you did, did it make much of a difference on the premium?

Did it affect your mpg noticeably?

Chris
 

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lilactime said:
Hi Paul

Thanks for that, did you tell your insurance company, what are the rules on that?

If you did, did it make much of a difference on the premium?

Did it affect your mpg noticeably?

Chris
I heard the term "Front end fraud" expressed by an insurance industry spokesman recently. Put simply, you are required to tell your insurers of any modification to your car.
Additionally, there will be consequences as far as the Jaguar warranty is concerned.
 

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Lilactime wrote:"Are 3.0 owners unhappy? I am not fussed about mpg as it will do so few miles. I guess Road Fund is a bit of a downer is that £400 pa?"
Mate: Happy New Year; I have a new 3L petrol; If you are the type who would do few miles...I tell you this car is a pure pleasure :D ...and about the rd tax; I assume it shoulden't hurt so much cos you r getting one of the worlds best drives ;)
 

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lilactime said:
Are 3.0 owners unhappy? I am not fussed about mpg as it will do so few miles. I guess Road Fund is a bit of a downer is that £400 pa?
Chris
If that is the case; read the words of andrewll
andrewll said:
I was not told of the DPF thing when I bought mine and I had not at that stage joined this forum. My daily commute is all of 1.5 miles each way and I only get the occasional opportunity to do longer runs that might clean out the DPF. I have now done 1100 miles in 3 months and took the precaution of doing a 30 minute motorway blast at about 600 miles (when I heard the ticking noise from underneath) but have still to get the 'Full' message.
However I would certainly have bought the petrol had I known about this but was swayed by the salesman's persuasive arguments about diesel resale values !
That notwithstanding (I'm not a solicitor !) I still think it's a fabulous car (see my other thread) :)
 

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lilactime said:
Are 3.0 owners unhappy? I am not fussed about mpg as it will do so few miles. I guess Road Fund is a bit of a downer is that £400 pa?
i'm never unhappy ;)

i've owned S-types in 4.2 V8, and 3.0 V6 flavour :) preferred the V6, and would've kept it if it hadn't broken (gearbox - now superseded - at 140k miles :shock: ). initially loved the sound and grunt of the V8, but that itch has now been scratched, and in real-world conditions IMO the V6 was as good, and quick enough. and felt like the better balanced car :) .

if you're doing no miles though, have a V8 if you can stretch to it. my car is/will be a daily drive doing 15k miles a year :)
 

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pekem said:
lilactime said:
Hi Paul

Thanks for that, did you tell your insurance company, what are the rules on that?

If you did, did it make much of a difference on the premium?

Did it affect your mpg noticeably?

Chris
I heard the term "Front end fraud" expressed by an insurance industry spokesman recently. Put simply, you are required to tell your insurers of any modification to your car.
Additionally, there will be consequences as far as the Jaguar warranty is concerned.
Yes you should inform your insurance company even though some of the units can be removed in under 5 mins.

As for the warranty herein lies one of the biggest misunderstandings, scaremongering and myths :roll:

Yes your unscrupulous dealer will tell you otherwise & I won't go into the ins & outs here but why do you think that all reputable tuning box manufacturers warrant repairs should the fitting of the unit invalidate the car manufacturers warranty.
 

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PaulCP said:
Yes you should inform your insurance company even though some of the units can be removed in under 5 mins.

As for the warranty herein lies one of the biggest misunderstandings, scaremongering and myths :roll:

Yes your unscrupulous dealer will tell you otherwise & I won't go into the ins & outs here but why do you think that all reputable tuning box manufacturers warrant repairs should the fitting of the unit invalidate the car manufacturers warranty.
i don't get it though :?: why spend up to £30K on a car you're then going to modify to make it a little bit quicker, and maybe improve the mpg by a fraction :|

just buy the right car in the first place :)

edit @ lilactime - tax-wise you should be fine for the first year at least - my dealer didn't take much persuading to throw it in ;)
 

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[quote="bob

i don't get it though :?: why spend up to £30K on a car you're then going to modify to make it a little bit quicker, and maybe improve the mpg by a fraction :|

just buy the right car in the first place :)

;)[/quote]

In the case of the 2.7d you could well be right (as i alluded to) although other option was a tax busting V8 :roll:

In the case of my BMW then the 2.0d was underpowered in std form and the tuning box brought it upto 2.5d+ standards. (not quite just a "little bit" quicker)

In both cases buying the right car in the first place would have cost me £1000s extra each year in tax being company cars
 

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PaulCP said:
Yes you should inform your insurance company even though some of the units can be removed in under 5 mins.

As for the warranty herein lies one of the biggest misunderstandings, scaremongering and myths :roll:

Yes your unscrupulous dealer will tell you otherwise & I won't go into the ins & outs here but why do you think that all reputable tuning box manufacturers warrant repairs should the fitting of the unit invalidate the car manufacturers warranty.
I am not clear what you are saying about the warranty aspect of your reply. :?
Page 15 of the Jaguar Warranty seems to me, a casual reader of it, as being unequivocal. It states that if any unauthorised performance enhancement kit causes damage whilst fitted, any repairs required will not be under warranty.
 

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That's exactly the point!

Just fitting something doesn't invalidate the warranty. Only if a problem can be traced to the fitment of something being the cause of the problem will that particular problem not be fixed under warranty. Perhaps it was the use of the word WILL be consequences rather than MAY be consequences in your post that caused some confusion

On the topic of tuning boxes some are developed more than others. Cheaper ones tuned purely to increase power may cause smoke & potential damage whilst others will be more highly developed. I think that 115k miles in less than 3 years in a BMW and previously similar mileage in a Volvo with a particular one fitted is testiment enough for me!

Anyway life is full of personal choices & prefernces - woiuld be pretty dull if not
 

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PaulCP said:
Just fitting something doesn't invalidate the warranty.
from my experience of warrantys and insurance bods, where something is as clearly stated as that in the T+Cs, you can be fairly sure it will invalidate the warranty.

i.e. ball-joint failed Sir - well that's because you've modified the car outwith its designed specification

i get your argument, but are you prepared to go down the legal route for it

it's not worth the risk IMO - especially if you're using your own money to buy the thing :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Phew! That is a whole can and a half of worms opened there.

I guess the answer is be prepared to stand the consequences of your actions, it is tempting although with the imminence of the (as yet untested) 3.0D it might not be worth it. Just get a 3.0D and wear the premium.

I am drawn to the Petrols like a moth to a flame though, my 3.0 X-Type (51 reg) was a beautiful drive, so immediate in it's responses. I have spotted a lovely £33K 4.2 with Ivory. Only doing 8 to 10k it would be worth it for the thrill. Like somebody else said the itch would eventually be scratched, probably by Gordon's Highway Tax Collectors, but what a scratch it would be.

Back to remapping I guess on a 5 year old Multipla it wouldn't matter, bar telling the insurers, as it is out of warranty anyway.

Thanks for all the advice, everyone, much appreciated.
 

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bob said:
PaulCP said:
Just fitting something doesn't invalidate the warranty.
from my experience of warrantys and insurance bods, where something is as clearly stated as that in the T+Cs, you can be fairly sure it will invalidate the warranty.

i.e. ball-joint failed Sir - well that's because you've modified the car outwith its designed specification

i get your argument, but are you prepared to go down the legal route for it

it's not worth the risk IMO - especially if you're using your own money to buy the thing :)
Well your experience differs from mine and one thing for sure the manufacturers are not going to want to go down the legal route when their T&Cs almost certainly contravene one's normal rights.

The usual initial problem is the dealers but fortunately i have not had a problem in the past. My BMW dealer knew about the box fitted and still carried out warranty work into the 2nd year until the 60000 mile limit was reached and my dealer for my weekend car which is highly modified and used mainly on tracks still carried out warranty work into the 3rd year.

Interestingly enough most people think that using your car on track days will invalidate the warranty but i notice that in the Jaguar handbook it advises you not to use on track days until 5000 miles has been covered.

Insurance is different and you should inform them just as you should any modifications from standard whether mechanical or cosmetic (including little things like chrome vents).

Anyway, enough said i think, it's a matter of choices & preferences & i have mine!
 
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