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The FT's readers' comments are really scathing, and The Telegraph's similar.


I think this 'thing' will go down as JLR's epitaph, a monstrosity really:

50128


Saw one in the flesh yesterday, a 'murdered out' all-black thing - huge.

JLR claims/lies that the spare wheel adds only 270 ml to the vehicle length, making it a smidge over 5 meters, or basically the Disco5's, Full-fat's length, but I'd say it's at least 5.1m, perhaps a tad more.

That makes it almost S-Class length, sticking out over UK parkijng bays, and again, in reality, nearer 2.2 metres wide, than the claimed/lied 2.1, and basically 2 metres tall, so scraping multi-storey height restrictors.

In other words, it's a fish out out of water in the UK, anti-social, a silly, thuggish show-off car, like the midget who penned it, McGovern.

It was obviously conceived way back when JLR could do no wrong, riding high, pre-Dieselgate, around 2015, and behemoth, US-size SUVs seems a one-way bet to (even more) riches.

Now it looks ridiculous, a massive, anti-social, on UK's generally narrow, crowded streets, slug of F U, weighing not far off 6.000 lbs in reality, the aero of a brick, and real economy of 20 or less mpg with the 2-litre diesel thing 'powering' it - i.e., the complete antithesis of post-Covid times, where it's all about EV/PHEV, small/compact cars, and bust/jobless consumers.

The huge spare wheel alone is comical - it must weigh at least 35 kg, and it's just so huge, blotting out that part of the rear screen that is most vital - the near/near-ish road behind - not a view of the sky/distant rear horizon.

The car is all for show - impractically huge, heavy wheel, the silly covering up of the C-pillar with that plastic stuck on thing, to hide the fact that it's just a rebodied Disco5, and the McGovern trademark Tonka Toy looks for five year olds.

While can-do-no-wrong-in-2020 Volvo is about to launch the XC40 and Polestar 2 BEVs, can-do-no-wrong-in-2015 JLR has The Pig, the 'Icon'.
 

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LOL - The Defender is a compact (2 door) or mid-size (4-door) SUV in the US. And it is probably the best vehicle that JLR makes. It will sell over here like hot cakes for a while.
 

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LOL - The Defender is a compact (2 door) or mid-size (4-door) SUV in the US. And it is probably the best vehicle that JLR makes. It will sell over here like hot cakes for a while.
You're Doug DeMuro, and I claim my $5.

It is not 'compact'. It's 5.1 metres long, 2.2 metres wide, 2 metres tall - almost exactly the size of a Hummer H2.

It's Midget McGovern tripping on his alter ego - 6'5", 220 lbs of muscle.

No it won't sell like hot cakes, not after the Bronco comes out in 3 weeks, the V6 for ~$50k, compared to nearly double that for The Icon - an SUV.

The Grenadier with a BMW six-cylinder presents before the end of the month, around £50k in top spec - £20-30k less than a Defender six-cylinder.

The Yanks are as least as bust as us Brits - the unemployment level is 2, 3 times the official, so no one but the insane will be running out and putting up to $100k on another, '57 Varieties' SUV from JLR, with an engine made of chocolate - Ingenium - whatever DeMuro, Lieberman and co are paid to say.

You can't have it both ways, Baron, praising and pushing Tesla, with EV conquering all-comers in the States and worldwide, but JLR and its ancient, dinosaur ICEs somehow being immune - because people just love buying 300 mile+ EVs, AND sub-15 mpg behemoth SUVs - right.
 

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Here we go again - Groundhog Day with the insane Tata crew - doing the same and expecting different results... again, and again, ...and again:

'After record loss, Tata Motors to scout for partner in car business'


'The company, which is in the process of spinning off its domestic passenger vehicle business into a wholly-owned subsidiary, also said it was looking for a strategic partner and was in talks with automakers for the same.'

- it was just 5 minutes ago that Tata and its media handmaidens told us that Chery was buying, or rather had bought Tata Motors Passenger Vehicles, and by extension JLR, through the JV.

That's all to be forgotten about now, apparently - a thing called fraud, deliberately pumping the TM share price, with that fake planted 'news' story, or at least providing cover for Tata Sons to push up what is a fake 'share', as Tata owns 99.9999999999999% of it.

Same of course over the last 18 months, with first 'JLR 90% complete in its sale to PSA', then the BMW story, then the Geely story, then the Apple story, and most recently, the Chery story.

They try the same thing - conspiracy to commit fraud - over and over and over.

And now again today, but this time not naming anyone - because they've run out of them - all been tried, or as I said, the likes of BMW, Chery maybe, probably Apple, have threatened them with legal action, serious claims for damages.

But it's all they've got, this constant game of 'in talks with... ', etc.

The obvious and only choice is staring them in the face - swallow their pride and bin JLR off - by telling HM.gov, publicly or privately, that they are walking away - losses are huge and threatening the mother company.

Their pride - 'we bought the jewel in the crown of the country/people that lorded it over us for 250 years, with The East India Company, and then The British Raj, turning the tables on our former colonial masters, with us now the masters, they took the Koh-i-Noor from us, we took the 'jewels' Jaguar and Land Rover from them' - is stopping them.

It's an impasse, that is killing everyone, Tata and JLR, India and the UK.

Spaffer, as a statesman, or just doing his job, needs to break it, by telling the Tatas, Mistrys and Modi that JLR cannot be maintained by Tata, is in imminent danger of total collapse, and needs to be nationalised by the UK govt.
 

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The madness is bone marrow-deep:

'Stay in Bed Instead said:

I tagged a Range Rover I liked the look of just before lockdown, £64,990. It's still for sale and the dealer has just increased the price by £500.

Hmmmm.
They have just increased the price of this to £66,190.

It is some sort of reverse psychology trying to get someone to buy it before the price increases beyond their affordability?'

'carinaman said:

Is that the price they can achieve?

Supply and demand? How many Range Rovers have been made since March? Haven't they just laid off thousands of workers and got a loan from China to keep them going? They'll be less Range Rovers made so demand may be greater?

Well, nobody has bought it yet.'



Idiocy, unbridled greed and media/state brainwashing has created this witch's brew of clear round the bend madness, abroad in the vast majority of the population.

These people really believe Range Rovers, or 'Range Rover', is the Faberge Egg of the modern world, and so no price is too high, or rather the higher the price the more it shows and proves how in-demand it is.

This crap only works in the UK, where ordinary people cheer ponzi price bubbles, as told to do so by The Daily Mail, BBC, the whole 'culture' of the country - 'footfall', shopping='Economy', celebrating' the first £500k a week footballer and London having more billionaires than anywhere else, etc - to the point most of them can't afford a place to live, and their children zero chance, and their No.1 favourite icon, touchstone of national success and prestige is pricing its products deliberately out of markets where most consumers still buy on objective value for money, reliabilty, customer support etc, i.e., the rest of the world.

Pure insanity.
 

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The dirty little secret of Tesla's '$1 trillion' worth, and Tata once looking to get £30, maybe as much as £50bn for JLR:


- the story is about VAG buying out the remaining independent shareholders of Audi AG, and it reveals how much real car companies are actually worth, with years of massive sunk investment, 'brand capital', and that almost priceless value of those tens, hundreds of thousands of employees, the whole system of a mature, complex company.

The buyout values Audi AG at, wait for it, ...€65 billion.

And yet we're led to believe by the anglo UK/US media that Audi is basically a smashed wreck, on the rock of Dieselgate and cheating.

Audi is the smallest of the German Premium 3, and of course the value of Porsche inside VW group is certainly bigger than Audi's, if not inestimable.

Tesla's 'value' as anyone with a brain knows is a pushed state/regime PR thing, a near $trillion value compnay that can't assemble basic interiors, or paint a car.

Tesla is just JLR c.2012-2016 on exponential stilts, with its window closing as rapidly as JLR's was then, with the Chinese, Koreans, and now Germans and Swedes, making excellent, quality EVs all at a price below Tesla, and making money.
 

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Its timing couldn't be better - below €30k with subsidies in Germany, similar elsewhere, France, Spain etc, and UK surely having to follow, while JLR touts a £70k diesel behemoth SUV as its saviour:

50136


EV/PHEV is the thing post-The Thing, a licence to print money for those who can mass produce them at a profit - pre-subsidy.

To show the way the wind is blowing, Mercedes is promoting in Germany the new A-Class PHEV, 'A250e', at just €45+VAT a month for business leasing, 1 or 2 years duration, 10k km/yr mileage allowance, thanks to the govt. subsidy of €4.5k, plus manufacturer's of €1.9k:


£70k, £6-700/month PCP/leasing diesel SUVs don't compute in this world - a 4 cyl. petrol Ingenium pulling a 2.5 tonne brick is a deathtrap that even airheads will avoid - nor do the similar Evoque/DSport 3 cyl. PHEV ~2.3 tonnes Deathrap-twins - that no one's seen, other than JLR shills on Pistonheads saying: 'my mate knows someone's dad who works at JLR, who knows an engineer who says the DSport hybrid thing does 30 miles electric 'easy', and 30 mpg+ 'easy' when the juice runs out', etc.

The post-the Thing boon for the Germans, VW especially, and blight for Diesel-dependent JLR, is karma payback for the Dieselgate escapade.
 

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Did Callum do for Jaguar? I think he did.

The latest - facelifted car officially showing tomorrow - Merc-AMG E63 looks more like a Jaguar - imagine an XFR-S or XF SVR - than the XF, I or II:



- the relatively upright rear screen, longish bootlid, arching bodyline says Jaguar more than this thing, a distended Mondeo or a Fastback that ain't:



The E-Class above is not a million miles away from this:



- very similar glasshouse, rear screen angle, and arched bodyline.

Callum turned the mechanicals of that into the XL Mondeo, without a hatchback, and got buried with praise, for 'modernising Jaguar'.

Now, viewed 22 years on, to me there's a recognisable thread between the S-type and the E-Class, especially in its 'pumped up' AMG version.

You could imagine the 2017 E-Class having been the 1998 S-type developed through two/three generations.

Callum got max short-term adulation, but actually kibosed Jaguar for the long term.

The XF was a dead end, as was the very similar in concept 2009 XJ, another Fastback but not a Fastback design, or XXL Mondeo, completely unsuited to the S-Class segment, or the 'XJ-segment', as was, in the 1970s and 80s, with its 3-box, sleek 'pencil'/'cigar' design, which Callum trashed at a stroke.

My 2p anyway.
 

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Did Callum do for Jaguar? I think he did.

The latest - facelifted car officially showing tomorrow - Merc-AMG E63 looks more like a Jaguar - imagine an XFR-S or XF SVR - than the XF, I or II:



- the relatively upright rear screen, longish bootlid, arching bodyline says Jaguar more than this thing, a distended Mondeo or a Fastback that ain't:



The E-Class above is not a million miles away from this:



- very similar glasshouse, rear screen angle, and arched bodyline.

Callum turned the mechanicals of that into the XL Mondeo, without a hatchback, and got buried with praise, for 'modernising Jaguar'.

Now, viewed 22 years on, to me there's a recognisable thread between the S-type and the E-Class, especially in its 'pumped up' AMG version.

You could imagine the 2017 E-Class having been the 1998 S-type developed through two/three generations.

Callum got max short-term adulation, but actually kibosed Jaguar for the long term.

The XF was a dead end, as was the very similar in concept 2009 XJ, another Fastback but not a Fastback design, or XXL Mondeo, completely unsuited to the S-Class segment, or the 'XJ-segment', as was, in the 1970s and 80s, with its 3-box, sleek 'pencil'/'cigar' design, which Callum trashed at a stroke.

My 2p anyway.
Not sure the deletions have left your original post intact ?
 

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Not sure the deletions have left your original post intact ?
it worked, thanks.

rather emphasizes my point that now with the benefit of 10 or more years,, Callum's 'modernising' of Jaguar was a disaster - the fastback, coupe XJ now looks even more odd, an amalgam in Callum's mind I think of trying to be Citroen clever-clever, and pandering to the American bloated luxury look - Jaguar's main market then - perhaps influenced by his brother:

50147


- total write-off apparently, but the car's repairable. :)
 

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A No.10 SpAd or spin doctor will probably blame it on the Germans - '(Deutsche Post) DHL Supply Chain' - duh!, giving them ideas again:

'DHL workers at Jaguar Land Rover to be made redundant'


A DHL Supply chain spokeswoman saying there was now a need to restructure and 'rationalise our linefeed and freight operations which supports JLR'.
- in other words, JLR's post-Corona production plan at Solihull, JLR's key, cornerstone, only really profitable plant/operation, is a fraction of even the anorexic production from around 2018 onwards there, probably down to no more than a 1,000 cars a week for the foreseeable future - certainly rest of 2020 - across 4 product lines remember, Full-fat, RRSport, Velar and F-Pace.

This compares to around five times that, over 200,000 cars a year coming out of Solihull, in the heyday of 2012/13-2017/18 - driven by the RRSport, then Full-fat, with a brief bump from the WCotY F-Pace in 2017-18, plus of course losing the to-2016 Defender, and Disco5 production from last year.

Production falling by 80% tends to mean workers eventually have to go - lots of them, with DHL having made several, separate cuts at the Solihull/Ford Dunlop offsite logistics operation over the last couple of years and a bit, but this is the dam bursting, like JLR, using the cover of Corona to make this swingeing cut, for what had been needed for months/years.

Of course what's really happening here, too, is what will be, already is happening to millions of 'employees' who have been furloughed - they're being sacked, now that employers take a financial hit from August 1st, so the legal requirement of 45 days 'consultation' takes these poor bods through to start of August, from June 17th notification, when DHL, and so Deutsche Post, HQ'd in Bonn, Germany, would have had to start handing over £millions in national insurance and so on, for 'workers' for whom they have no need, as JLR has little need of line-fillers and so on.

Huge story, really, combining the implosion of JLR, the showpiece 'Range Rover'/Land Rover/'Rover' production facility above all, dating back 80 years to the wartime shadow factory - 'we won the war' etc - and the millions now being made unemployed by this cliff-edge of the ridiculous 'Furlough safety net', which was just cynical propaganda to hide this mass unemployment, inevitable from March 23rd, when the economy was destroyed, what was left of it, on the altar of prower-tripping weirdo quacks and 3rd-rate politicians, who couldn't see, or were paid off, or too cowardly, to call out what was happening, and stop it, like Sweden, S.Korea, Taiwan and some others somewhat did.
 

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Out of the mouths of relative babes:

"I don't know what to do and can't get my head around what has happened. Once the pandemic started it was the perfect opportunity for them to use it to get rid of people for 'business reasons'."

From feast to famine, from 2013-2018 'Stunning Success', to 'We want you all out, just looking for an excuse, a scapegoat, cover to do it':

He said a number of workers were under the impression they could be given permanent positions after five years service. [ taken on ~2014/15 - 'Boomtime'; they were lied to, kidded on.]

However, JLR said that this approach was "changed in 2018 as part of our regular negotiations with the Trade Union." - the 'union' hierarchy, gen. secs., permanent, London-based staff, connived with management and the state in kidding on the pleb workers that JLR was still 'Stunning', a 'Phenomenon' etc, when (real) sales had long gone off a cliff, from late 2015/early 2016 onwards
- a criminal ponzi, a pump-and-dump, propaganda operation, with the full blessing of the UK state, from media, to Plod, to 'royals', to the civil service, to auditors.

Welcome to 'One of the Richest Countries in the World/Fifth Largest Economy Britain':

He is due to receive a small amount of redundancy from his last role - a weeks wage for every year of employment.
- sub-Victorian, sub-Workhouse Britain, thanks to 50 years of unrelenting brainwashing of the working classes, to the point we have no Welfare System, no 'Safety Net', the poorest dole, pensions, social security in the developed world, except perhaps the US, where income tax, national insurance contributions etc are lower for the average working stiff, so UK is the worst place in the world to be out of work, ...or in poverty-pay work.

Once the fella above's five weeks of redundancy pay is over, so start of September, when his kids go back to school, he can look forrward to at most around £100 a week on Universal 'Benefit' - if he can prove to the faceless bureaucracy that he hasn't a penny left.

This is why food banks have exploded in UK, and the media and state want you to focus on 'Stunning JLR', royals riding around in them, 'Someone's Life Matters' - but not yours, Pleb - The Thing of course, and bound to be in the next five minutes some other distraction for the hoi polloi - WWIII? - to keep them from revolting against their real, current slave owners, and their frontmen, like 17 stone plus Spaffer, who tells the plebs to stop being so fat, which is far worse than Marie Antoinette's 'Let them eat brioche', for which she ultimately lost her head, but Spaffer, sorry, 'Boris', is fawned owver for his 'illness'. Wake the F up - and not the 'Woke' sh!te.
 

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Everything is now being held up, on hold, by the blockage Speth, the floater who won't flush:

'JLR decision on possible model cuts due ‘in a few weeks,’ top exec says'


- Speth is due to go September, as we know, almost certainly the 1st and not the 30th, and he will have weeks of leave due - absent without leave these past 3 months - so effectively he will be gone mid July, which is where this 'inside'/'deepthroat' info from a hack working for JLR's PR contractor, Haymarket, comes from.

Jaguar Land Rover will decide “in a few weeks” whether to further reduce spending and possibly cut models or modify future programs at the British automaker, a top executive said.
- 'we're just waiting for the 'Sir' to leave the building, so the Charlie Chaplin impersonator doesn't have his whole reputation and legacy ruined by the announcing of the real cuts - thousands of jobs, model lines, possibly factory closure(s) - and of course this would look terrible for the UK state, Whitehall, No.10, 'The Great and Good' generally, who have built The Clown up into a cross between Henry Ford and Elon Musk, the knighthood, Royal Society Felllowship etc, and so have a huge vested interest too in seeing Speth safely out the door, so no back splatter of fecal matter hits them, when the real stuff hits the fan with the 'surprise' news; of JLR doing a very convincing BL impersonation from July onwards'.

And of course, Jaguar binned, as I said, and a blind man could see:

Jaguar under review
JLR is also reviewing the future of the Jaguar brand, Balaji said.
“It’s not an easy task. It is very renowned brand, yet in some markets it’s not as strong as it ought to be,” Balaji said.
 

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The real reason Jaguar and JLR died - said before, but bears repeating till the end of time - is the real world moved so far ahead that the web of deception collapsed.

The real world is German monomania for making things, the 'best' of everything - fastest, most efficient, lightest, newest tech, whatever.

The Germans, even with the blow to the solar plexus, and below the belt, of Dieselgate, are back where they were in the 1930s - Silver Arrows and so on - but this time obviously plus the huge VW, and BMW, and Skoda, Seat, and Rolls-Royce, Bentley etc.

The common thread through it all is Porsche, from the Mercedes SSK, to the Auto Union racers, to the Beetle/VW, to the titanic Porsche we see today, from the seemingly effortless world's best EV, to the world's best sportscar, to the best-selling SUVs:


One by one, the phony pretenders/conquerors have fallen over, crushed by the reality of Porsche's/German auto industry's dominance, from JLR, to McLaren, to the last to fall, but imminent, Tesla - it never rose, but like the other two was just a state propaganda tool, and insiders' looting vehicle of billions of taxpayer funds.

The reality of 10 seconds 1/4 mile(on a good surface) for a £155k everyday usable car, with the '992' GT cars to come, simply destroys all the lies, 'character' and any other BS that the media has been paid to write for JLR, Tesla, McLaren these past 10 years or so.

When almost every petrolhead has a mobile phone with a stopwatch, or a Dragy like app, it became impossible to sell the 'icon' Jaguar thing, resting on 60 plus years ago exploits at Le Mans.

Same for Land Rover, having nicked the Jeep, then taken the Grand Wagoneer's clothes for 'The Icon' 1970 Range Rover, and now about to be exposed as The fake 4x4 brand with the new Bronco and real-Land Rover Grenadier.

You can't rest on Le Mans in the 1950s or The Darien Gap in 1971 forever.
 

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The pantomine continues:

  • we're about to have some news with a passing acquaintance on the real situation at JLR, once the waxwork dummy Speth is out of the way
  • BMW, 'JLR's Partner', is cutting 6,000-10,000 jobs
  • China and India are at each other's throats
  • Tata Motors has been downgraded again
so...

the share price surges again, leading the sector.

'Moody’s downgrades Tata Motors to B1, outlook negative'


- it's really utter junk, rather than just junk:

The credit rating agency said that TML’s credit profile is more in line with a B2 rating but expectation of strong financial support from parent Tata Sons Ltd leads to a one-notch uplift of the CFR to B1.
- translated: 'we dare not rate TM as it is, 'C' or less, as 'Tata Sons', the Tata and Mistry oligarchs, are the law and rulers in India, are India, and we would like to keep our jobs, please, but are also worried about being sued by the one or two still remaining corporate investors, private equity funds in TM/Tata, who are probably only doing it to sue us, when it falls over, for many times their tactical stake, in a US or UK court'.
 

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Emil Frey needs to engage a good lawyer - German Dual Arch white elephant/fraud par excellence:


50148


- just weeks later at least half their franchise is gone.

The mal-investment caused by JLR's fraudulent prospectus to its sales agents back in the ~2013-2016 period, Dual Arch, 1 million units a year by 2018, Jaguar doing 200k units, etc, must run into the tens of £billions worldwide, over that say 7 year period now, across 1,000 plus dealership units.

Someone will to have pay, be made accountable for all this, hence the shysters getting involved, and having a field day.
 

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Uh-oh, they've wheeled out The Dick - it's serious:


'Just how wonderful is JLR, Mr Eberhardt?'.

But Dick, to show he is a journo, and not a full-time proctologist, has to break his Comical Ali routine for a second, and broach the subject of 'JLR's record US 'sales'', by implying that it may have been due to US JLR dealers being buried under inventory, of 'sold' cars:

'I asked a few dealers about the state of their business. One of their top concerns is being forced to take cars that may not be right for their markets.'

- never mind the 'right for market' nonsense, the dealers are simply on about being forced, at point no doubt of being threatened with franchise removal - which is not exactly a threat anymore - or I'll bet NDAs by JLR legal dept. if they disclose what's going on in any way to the public arena with all these 'record sales', to take, month after month, like clockwork, hundreds of thousands of units now since this began in 2017, of unsellable XEs, XFs, still stock of the 1 year expired XJ, F-type, Velar, 'new' Evoque, etc, I-Pace of course, that simply can't be sold, actually sold, for actual money, unless reduced by 20% plus, which JLR sales people will forbid, to protect JLR's public persona of 'Premium-Plus', above Merc/BMW/Audi, at least on a par with Porsche, if not approaching Ferrari desirability/image level, and only allowing dealers to slash prices to try to move stock once it's well over a year old, like those 2018/19 I-Paces littering the US countryside.

This is a scandal that dwarfs FCA's pushing of stock on its dealers, to boost FCA's official sale figures, and hence its share price, and hence value for when it was sold, which was Marchionne's prime task set by the Agnellis/Elkann, for which of course FCA had their wrist slapped by the US 'justice' system, but seem to have gone AWOL with the JLR case - funny that.

Wait until these JLR dealers hear in a few weeks that their massive, forced by JLR, investment in Dual Arch, brand new premises, new sites etc, has been in vain, gone up in smoke, with Jaguar effectively over, and JLR downsizing to a fraction of the 2018-'20 baloney of 1 million global sales and around 250,000/yr in the US.

Lawsuits will fly, and it would be criminal racketeering cases if the US wasn't in the UK camp.

Eberhardt explains to the toad reporter that JLR has no US equivalent of UK's 'Distribution Centres', where JLR can dump tens of thousands of cars in ex-WWII RAF arifields, and hence it has to drop this inventory, 'sales, on US dealers directly:

'But they are built, and they are in inventory and they need to go somewhere... ...'we had to find homes for those cars... .

- sure do. In UK they can go to the 'Distribution Centres', the NHS, FCO, Spaffer's new car, self-registered to management every five minutes, employees/family/the toilet cleaner, pre-regs. by the bucket load, the 'royals', 'VIPs', rental, lease fleets, etc, etc, all funded by the UK taxpayer, who pays for these cars to be made, and then given away, or stand idle for months/years, until worth the square root of nothing.

Eberhardt is obviously not in the inner circle, who have already decided to pull the plug on Jaguar. He's just parroting the line from c.2018, and no doubt realising his time is up and working his notice.
 

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I wonder why Bombay have told JLR to bin off Jaguar, including the Gamechanger :


- £56,900, 5,600 miles, Mar. '19

WBAC is back up, so the real price for this 'icon' is...

Your valuation
£43,840

My guess would be that car cost around £84k, just 15 months ago.

£40k loss. That's what they meant by Gamechanger.

I think Spaffer should be given one as his new car - doesn't need armouring, as he carries inbuilt armour, around 5 stone of it.

He knows all about money going up in smoke too, as he and his Bullingdon mates set fire to £50 notes in front of homeless people.
 
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