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5,089 Posts
This single car will have had more spent on it, had more engineer development man-hours, than JLR in total spent and engineered since 2008:

- it's literally on another level - at least Level 3 autonomy - the thing that Julian Thompson has just said 'is far too expensive for JLR[(/Tata)] to even think about doing'.

Yes, JLR had billions, starting from 2008, with the tens of millions just for 'ERAD', a billion or so for Ingenium, another billion for The Advanced Propulsion Centre, tens of billions from UK taxpayers in all over those 12 years, but all as a substitute for Tata's own investment, and when the times were good, 2011-2015/16, they were sucked back out and sent to Tata Sons as dividends, and design, IP fees etc, with fake accounting to boost JLR's apparent profitabilty, leaving it wide open to the collapse that came from 2016 onwards.

The new S-Class is Mercedes/Daimler AG doing what Jaguar/the British car industry last did in the 1960s - pouring money and engineering effort into flagship/key/core/critical products, like the 1968 XJ, with just artificial, external blips like the 1980 Mini Metro, born of taxpayer money and support, or of course an idiotic Ford and then BMW in the 1990s, pouring literal billions into the blackhole of a gone to seed, 'Service' economy UK, where the brightest/greediest engineers became accountants or 'per diem' management consultants.

The news S-Class(/Maybach) is literally stunning, just as the BMW equivalent will be, the coming new Rolls-Royce Ghost, and the existing, new Bentley Flying Spur from VW/Porsche is.

They are the culmination of 40, 50, ... 70 years of post-complete destruction of everything in Germany making things, of competing to make the best, ...of everything, because what's the point otherwise?

The English Dream, '(I've) made it', is a country pile, and a title. Hence why so many of our industries and 'top, world-leading companies' turned out to be a few decades at most wonders - once the money was made, creamed off, the owner or his sprogs wanted to become country squires and hob-nob with the 'elites' in London, so bung a few million to the party in power, and buy a title, and screw the worker eejits who thought they worked for a serious, long-term business.

'Industry' was only a vehicle to get rich, whereas industry, generally speaking, on the Continent, was a passion, a multi-generation affair, which would generally only die out due to no heirs, or war disruption.

Money in UK/England was/is the goal; in Europe, again generally speaking, it was a by-product.

5,089 Posts
Porsche-on-Crewe can't keep up with Chinese demand:

Ralf is nowhere to be seen. Maybe he's in China, organsing the flying in of parts in suitcases, or maybe like Elon he's telling Spaffer and Plod: 'Arrest me, but I'll never open those museums, sorry, factories!'.

It's all a joke now, isn't it.

The Bentyaga is an unmitigated disaster, according to received wisdom - JLR paid internet shills and 'experts' in industry and financial analysis.

Except it isn't, is it. And clearly the new Flying Spur is selling like hot cakes, as it's a Porsche Panamera with hand-stitching.

Same story at 'Rolls-Royce', BMW-on-Goodwood, The Chinese and the world can't get enough of the 'Fugly London Taxi' Cullinan.

This infantile deception has run its course. It's not even funny.

Speth can't open Solihull, fully, Halewood and CB, as there's no real demand for his stunners, icons and gamechangers, except from the NHS #Heroes/State-dispatchers.

5,089 Posts
BEV registrations in Germany April 2020

e-tron 246
i3 290
Kona 250
I-Pace 24
Niro 79
EQC 23
MINI-E 263
Leaf 71
Taycan 123
Zoe 627
e-Citigo 134
Smart 264
Model S 72
Model X 44
Model 3 519
eGolf 738
e-Up! 319
ID.3 32

5,089 Posts
Jaguar Land Rover production to restart - but with just 2,000 workers

- not even 2,000 workers, actually:

Up to 2,000 Jaguar Land Rover workers will return to work at its Solihull factory on Monday.

So let's recap on what's going on, at JLR, or rather isn't:

  • Solihull, JLR's by far biggest, most important, key operation, is being window-dressed as back 'open' - when it's supposed to be the maker of the most sought after cars in the world, all stunners orgasmic, world-beaters, world cars of the year... , the adored, incomparable Full-fat, 'orgasmic' Velar, 'stunning', WCotY F-Pace, and world-beating RRSport.
  • the likes of Audi, and its Solihull equivalent, Ingolstadt, has already moved to 3-shift
  • why is there absolutely zero news on Nitra? Shouldn't this plant be the 'new Solihull', where the only JLR half-selling car is made, the 'New' Defender? If it was the smash hit, 'icon', JLR and the whole global media claim it is, shouldn't Nitra be 3-shifting, and overtiming, Saturdays, etc, trying to clear the massive, global order backlog, trying to reduce order leadtimes of 6, maybe even 12 months, especially as other car plants in Slovakia have been back at work since early April, so there's been plenty of time, 6-7 weeks, to ramp up?
  • why is Cropley(Autocar) this morning putting in another ill-concealed advert and desperate call for someone, anyone, to notice the 'stunning', 'icon', 'New Defender', with his 'let's configure a Defender'?
  • why is JLR/the media, conspicuously quiet on JLR's performance in April, now 13 days past, especially the critical China sales? Is it because China especially is not 'stunning', JLR unable, like in the UK and US, to frig the figures to high heaven, so unlike the Germans and Volvo, did not enjoy a huge rebound in April, even selling more cars than April last year?
  • when will Castle Bromwich open? JLR has just reported 'stunning' sales of the XE and F-type especially in Germany, for April, where, incredibly - in the literal sense of the word - XE sales soared under Lockdown by multiple times compared to April last year, and the F-type outsold the Porsche Cayman!, so why isn't JLR gagging to get CB back open and delivering XEs, F-types and even XFs to adoring German 'customers'? Could it be because they don't exist, and JLR Deutschland was booking hundreds of cars as 'sales' which were just paper transfers to its VIP fleet, or given away, literally, to rental and lease fleets?
  • where's Speth? Genuine question. He's also now just 3 months from official retirement, with no successor appointed or named. No one willing to be openly associated with an Enron/Autonomy+++ fraud?
The whole thing is beyond a farce. Other, much bigger, much larger genuine selling car companies, are drawing down billions in loans, guarantees and so on, sacking thousands, tens of thousands of workers, to keep themselves afloat, but nothing of this for JLR, a company that will make at most a few hundred cars a week after 7 solid weeks of shutdown, and is facing trying to sell those cars at around 40% off, way below breakeven level.

It's like Furlough in the UK - it can't go on much longer.

JLR is fundamentally a minimum £1bn/month losing entity. Yes, the UK taxpayer is presently chipping in a large part of that, officially, with Furlough, and probably a lot more behind the scenes, as it's been doing increasingly since JLR went bust in 2015/16.

But now that the whole world minus UK is pretty well back at work, and JLR's 'smash hits', er, one car, the Defender, becomes exposed as just another monumental JLR flop - gee, no one paying £70k/£600 a month leasing for yet another Ingenium 4-pot 'stunner'? - and an avalanche of genuine new product from everyone else hits, from the ID.3 to the new S-Class, Spaffer and co. in Whitehall will have to make a decision on this £1bn+/month turkey, draining the UK exchequer, especially when they tell the plebs that to pay for their house arrest, they, the plebs, will have to pay more tax, much more tax, but Bombay oligarchs will continue to get £1bn a month at least from these pleb taxpayers? I don't think that will wash, even with the fabulously docile Brits.

No wonder Speth has gone to ground.

5,089 Posts
But 'self-made' billionaires are geniuses, by definition, not just uber-greedy crooks, and Autocar, the bible of all things automotive and motor sports, said 'Stroll is going to buy Mercedes F1, with his pal Toto Wolff, and Stroll/Aston Martin are going to conquer the world... ', and 'Stroll has raised/invested £500m into AML', and other fairytales, er, criminal counts of conspiracy to defraud UK and Welsh taxpayers, and any remaining non-inside the loop independent AML investors, and of course the duped, bilked, defrauded day to day suppliers of parts to Aston Martin, who may never be paid, 60, 90, 120 days later, and the development suppliers, partners working on the DBX, Valkyrie and so on, who likewise may never see a penny for their work and parts/kit supplied:

Losses soar as demand dries up for Aston Martin’s cars

Told ya - months ago.

There was no 'money' put into 'saving' AML. There was at most, as I said, a couple of million bunged in by Stroll and Bamford, and the taxpayer again on the hook for AML when, not if, it goes bump, probably running into a couple of billion in total - pensions etc.

AML is a larger version of Norton Motorcycles.

JLR is a larger version of AML.

Stroll just wanted the Aston name on his sh!t, no one's heard of F1 team, which he got for free, by 'saving' AML, with the media's story of '£500m pumped into James Bond's car company'.

Wolff may have been involved, when he thought Daimler was ending its F1 involvement, and he was basically out of a cushy, nice job, so he bungs in a few million, and gets to be the principal of the new Aston Martin F1 Racing.

The eejits meanwhile at Gaydon and St Athan, and at all those suppliers, as many as 20,000 dependent on Aston, get their P45s.

Sweet. Typical 'business' in Bandit-country, Plod will arrest you for criticising Lockdown or the Regime, but not stealing billions from the taxpayers, which they'll assist you to do - The JLR Engine Heist - UK.

5,089 Posts
Adrian Hallmark of Bentley on BBC Radio 5 Live's Wake up to Money this morning, around 5:45 am - very impressive.

Freed from parroting 'premium' and 'stunning' every 5 seconds when working/PR-ing for JLR, he sounded normal, in-charge and genuinely fired up about Bentley's prospects.

He said 99.7% of workers turned up on the first day back, better than a normal day - absenteeism in UK public sector runs at up to 5%, and private sector ~1-2%.

Bentley is the crown jewels of employers and employment in Cheshire, probably the whole of the UK, except Rolls-Royce Goodwood, and maybe the likes of the Geely-owned LEVC(Coventry) and Lotus Cars.

Contrast this to the no-mark, no-show, no-appearances whatsoever, the Boris Johnson of the car industry - is he hiding in a fridge? - Speth.

Hallmark almost certainly went to Bentley(VAG) for his black book contacts of VIPs, Beckham etc, but seems to have become genuinely impressed with the Bentley, cough, VAG operation - and who wouldn't be - everything top, best in the world, tech, investment, planning, management quality etc, and yes, pay.

Contrast this to all show/no go, all mouth/no trousers 100% PR operations JLR, and sadly, Aston Martin, and of course the joke Norton Motorcycles.

Two weeks on from the end of April, the key month for rebound in China, and JLR(PR operation) is still banging on about visors, heroes and icons. I guess that means we'll see JLR's April 'sales' figures around 5pm tomorrow, or even, if they're that bad, Saturday.

5,089 Posts
Is this why Tata is so desperate, even more than 2018-2020, to get rid of JLR?:


Five letters that mean the end of three letters, JLR.

On-board Fuel consumption Meter becomes mandatory for new cars sold in the EU from next year, 1st of January, just 7 months away.

It means, I think fairly obviously, that JLR's lies, conspired with fully by the UK state, on 'official', whether NEDC or WLTP, or anything else, fuel consumption, and hence CO2, and hence VED, and hence BiK, and hence whether JLR can sell any cars, against a competition with much lower real consumption and CO2, and hence better VED and BiK, will be finally, glaringly, unavoidably exposed.

This is a German report on Mercedes seeking to gain a sales advantage by moving to this tougher standard early, as their cars/engines mostly already comply - just Google translate it:

The key bit:

Dabei handelt es sich um eine reine Software, die bei Verbrennungsmotoren den Kraftstoff- und bei Elektrofahrzeugen den jeweiligen Energieverbrauch misst. Bei Plug-In-Hybrid-Modelle werden beide Werte erfasst und zudem darauf geachtet, wie oft elektrisch oder wie oft mit Unterstützung des Verbrennungsmotors gefahren wird. Die Daten werden über die gesamte Lebensdauer anonymisiert erfasst und müssen ab 2021 zudem an eine von der EU-beauftragte Stelle übertragen werden. Das genaue Prozedere dazu ist bislang aber noch nicht geregelt.
- that's the end of JLR's fairytale mpgs, CO2s and PHEV electric ranges.

Once the EU real-time data shows massive discrepancies between the UK Dept. for Transport's rubber-stamped 'official' JLR vehicle claims, it's only a short step to class action suits by European, ripped-off consumers, defrauded buyers, of JLR cars.

Germany allows maximum 10% deviation from claimed stats, under consumer protection law. JLR has been getting away with, routinely, across the board, claimed mpgs up to 100% more than real, and correspondingly CO2s of 50% less than real, with complete impunity from civil or criminal sanction, due to all organs of the UK state's protection.

Game over - the game of ripping off gullible/moronic/headbanger patriot 'marks', fully endorsed by the state.

5,089 Posts
The penny drops ...KLANG!.

'OBFCM' - see here: OBFCM.EU – On-Board Fuel Consumption Meter - means:

1. the inordinate haste/panic of Tata to get JLR a million miles away from it, ...like yesterday, but also,

2. explains now, with 20/20 hindsight, and the coming into view OBFCM, why JLR rushed headlong into Electric, way back in 2014.

Imagine you're a maker of the world's worst engines/cars - the thirstiest, most NOx-spewing, highest real CO2, worst real power, naff, faulty undeveloped, software bug-ridden cars/engines/powertrains/suspensions.ECUs etc.

Imagine you lived in a country, though, where all the 'elites' were more bent than anywhere else in the world, ...ever.

That would allow you to continue to sell your garbage, as long as you greased the right palms, and were the flagship for this bent regime's 'Booming Economy' and 'Manufacturing Renaissance', 'Midlands Engine'... .

But then, just when you were as happy as a pig in sh!t, with this set up, trebles all round for everyone involved, duping morons, with the media ably assisting, you learnt that legislation was coming down the pike, 5, 6 years away, which would mandate not only, uninterferable, uncorruptable, real-time, REAL fuel consumption to the driver, 'on-board fuel consumption meter(ing)', but that it would also be sent via telemetry to the authorities, to check the car was emissions compliant, to the latest, very severe standards, that would apply in 5 years or so time, but also, crucially, those authorities would not be the ones who were as bent as a corkscrew, and whom you had in your pocket - PANIC!!!.

That's what I believed happened in 2014 in JLR HQ, with Speth and so on.

By 2014, Speth knew 100% that Ingenium was garbage, and he also knew JLR's vehicles were the oldest, heaviest, highest Cd, etc, generally crappest, and that the 'new' products were to be just makeovers, ...of makeovers.

Speth was switched on enough to recognise that 2020 OBFCM would mean the end for and of JLR, a dead stop, a smashing into the barriers at top speed event, as OBFCM would expose the lying, cheating and fraud for all to see, and quite possibly the chance of Speth personally and other senior execs going to jail, for conspiracy to commit fraud, on multiple counts, for year after year, ...after year.

Lo and behold, out of almost nowhere, came 'The Gamechanger', in 2016.

Speth knew that JLR didn't have a chance of 'doing a Tesla', and within just a few years, so he went to his industry buddies, just across the Bavarian border, at Magna Steyr, to basically do the Gamechanger for him/JLR.

Yes, I stand by my claim that the I-Pace was about getting JLR sold, a shop window dressing, to lure idiots in, thinking JLR was high-tech, 'the European Tesla', but that came in 2017/18- .

It was actually born of this desperate need to avoid OBFCM exposing the massive, conspired fraud that had been going on at JLR since Tata took over, especially since the decent Forster CEO had to leave, in 2010.

Hence also why the 2009- XJ replacement suddenly went from an in 2014 'leaked' to the press as a 'Bentley-Fighter', ICE brute, to an EV, by 2017/18, with its launch, as trailed by in-house Autocar, for late 2018/early 2019 - the I-Pace with a rear overhang/boot, and a ride height drop.

No wonder JLR suddenly became desperate to be perceived and viewed as 'Electric', and Jaguar at least mooted to be 100% electric, by 2020/21 - recognise the time coincidence?

It explains so much:

  • the desperation of Tata and its paid lackeys in the media and financial analysis to push/bounce the sale of JLR to - PSA, BMW, Geely, Apple, and just a few weeks ago, Chery
  • the now absolute obvious desperation and panic by Tata and these lackeys to get JLR rid somehow, anyhow
  • the departure of Speth just 4 months before OBFCM comes into force
  • the inability of Tata to find anyone to become JLR's next CEO - the mug person who would be liable for the fraud(s) of 2010-2020
- the absolute, obvious reluctance of Speth and JLR to re-open, clinging on to using The Thing as the excuse to stay shut, and then hopefully avoid having to make cars that conform to OBFCM, and using The Thing to say the whole company has collapsed - before Jan 2020.

Think, as just one example, the idiots that may buy a Defender with Ingenium, who are told it does official 28 mpg, and then see the on-board readout saying single figures, as it drags up a slight incline on the motorway at barely 70 mph, due to its real 2,5 tonnes kerbweight, dreadful Cd, and huge frontal area.

Speth is likely away scott-free, but Tata has not got rid of JLR, and is very unlikely to do so, obviously with the background of crashed UK and US economies, so someone is going to be left carrying the can for this.

5,089 Posts
Price of oil collapsed + no real demand for 'stunners', 'icons' and 'world-beaters' =

- that'll have them queuing up around the block - maybe.

Speth has one task before he goes - STOP JLR re-opening, and hence losing its UK taxpayer furlough hundreds of millions, and producing more cars to add to the stockpiles everywhere.

5,089 Posts
Stockpiles from Upper Heyford to Bahrain - a bit old, but the actual situation is probably even worse:

The former RAF base is keeping row after row of unsold vehicles – including luxury Range Rovers and Jaguar sports cars – worth at least £35million.
- all correct, except 'luxury', 'sports' and 'worth'.

Cars sat on albeit luckily dry grass/hard-standing, are worth zip, less than zip - the money for the land they sit on, maintenance etc - unless there is a real customer out there.

JLR will book these cars as £x million, but they are actually negative worth, a liability, hence Speth's determination to never reopen - add more negative worth booked 'assets'.

Upper Heyford is kind of local/handy to JLR - direct M42/M40 from Solihull factory - the vast majority of JLR's overproduction/non-sellable cars - but it's still ~50 miles away, so other ex-WW II airfields, aka 'JLR Premium Distribution Centres', places like Gaydon, Fen End and even Bruntingthorpe(Leics), are closer, so this suggests JLR has run out of space at nearer ones.

I meant to go over and have a look at Fen End this weekend, which ostensibly is now home to SVO activities, as well as the older Experience Driving Centre thing.

'Welcome to Fen End - Home of "resting" Stunners, Icons and the odd Gamechanger - Drive Carefully'.

5,089 Posts
Not looking good for the emptying of 'luxury' and 'sporty' cars from you know who from Upper Heyford, Bruntingthorpe etc:

Only purely electric, small and light vehicles should be eligible,” said Lorelei Limousin, a climate and energy campaigner at Greenpeace.
- maybe a made up name/person, but the Kommissars of the EU in Brussels and Mad Mutti Merkel would love to end Europe's/Germany's domination of the car industry, and the high-powered, high-price, high-profits sector in particular, which of course includes JLR - except the last bit, er, and the first bit.

The above also excludes of course the I-Pace, but not the ID.3/ID.4/Enyaq/El-Born/e-tron Q4 etc - Doh!

“We need to encourage carmakers to take the leap into electric vehicles rather than help them finance getting rid of their SUV and high-emissions vehicle stocks,” said Pascal Canfin, a French MEP for the liberal Renew Europe group who chairs the European parliament’s environment committee.
- old Pascal may as well have been addressing JLR. Maybe he's heard about all the stunners and gamechangers in WWII English airfields.

Looks to me that JLR is right royally stuffed - more 'SUVs and high-emission vehicles' than you can shake a stick at, and zip 'electric, small, light vehicles'.

What 'story' will Autocar/the Bombay 'serious press' plant tomorrow to levitate the TM share price, to counteract this news? Speth to made a Lord? Lord Speth of Upper Heyford, Bruntingthorpe, Fen End, Hide them round the back... .

5,089 Posts
Interesting. Back when Jags were Jags(Fords) - 1996 AJ-V8 + Ford DEW98 platform(S-type/X250 XF):

~186 mph top speed confirms that pre-WLTP, pre gasoline particulate filter, Ford's/Jag's V8 could make over 500 hp, as it should have done, from 5-litres and supercharged.

It also confirms why Speth was desperate to get BMW's, or VAG's, or anyone's half decent modern V8, and sixes, from around 2013 onwards, when it became clear:

  • Ingenium was an abortion, and the I6 and V8 versions would be as bad or worse than the I4
  • WLTP for 2018/19, plus GPF, known in 2013, would kill the 1996 AJ-V8/'AJ-133' stone dead - terrible fuel economy/CO2, and drastically reduced power output
If you look at the fuel gauge, over this only few minutes lasting top speed run, it goes down about 15-20%, for a fuel tank of, I'm guessing, I haven't checked, 15 gallons, so at least 2 gallons, being generous, for a distance covered of max around 5 miles, giving a fuel economy of 2.5 miles per gallon.

This is the same engine, now 24 years old, still hauling 2.5 tonne bricks around, giving real fuel economy, average, of at best 15 mpg, imperial, 12.5 US.

And that's another, major part of why JLR died. Speth failed to get those engines, in 2013, and then 'Project Jennifer', around 2016/17 - promised for the 'New 2020 F-type', remember.

The only point of Speth was that he was ex-BMW, and supposed to have connections, and pull, with his old employer.

Once he failed in 2013, Tata should have booted him, as this was key, and he failed in this most important task.

They kept him because 2013/14 was JLR high-water mark, with still talk of IPO-ing, and Tata would have looked very odd firing such a 'stunningly successful' boss.

The Ford 1996 V8 engine was what made, saved JLR in 2010-, with the Ford 4-cylinder EcoBoost providing a supporting role for Evoque etc.

But, WLTP, GPF, and fantastic, incredible, genuinely all-new engines from the competition, giving real 700hp+ and real mpg in the mid 20s(imp.), from just 4-4.4 litres, killed this now dinosaur engine.

5,089 Posts
New XJ/eXJ?




The Chinese are now coming up on the rails to give the Germans and Volvo something to think about, when it comes to real EVs - JLR and Tesla = toys/PR outfits.

JLR hasn't a hope of competing with these giants/serious car companies.

Look at the spec of this thing:

  • High-performance 3-in-1 electric drive system – compact, light, efficient, reliable – with world-class motor energy density of 2.0 kW/kg and an efficiency up to 97.5%.
  • Longest-driving range EV in China at NEDC 706km.
  • World’s first EV with Infineon 950 IGBT module, delivering up to 580A to motor for continuous 40s.
  • German luxury sports style auto brand joint-developed chassis, optimized suspension & layout.
  • Bosch / Brembo braking system, new-gen Bosch iBooster braking recycling, c.100% energy recovery, with 35m 100km/h brake distance.
  • Autonomous driving system XPILOT3.0 for China’s challenging roads - 12 ultrasonic sensors, 5 millimeter-wave radars, 14 cameras – industry’s only 360° multi-perception integrated system.
  • Qualcomm Snapdragon 820 high-performance auto chip running Xpeng Xmart OS 2.0 - world’s first intelligent full-scenario voice interactive system, integrating App stores and Alipay mini-program dual ecosystem.
  • Whole-car OTA upgrade capability for in-car apps as well as ECU-controlled functions, supported by its SEPA (Smart Electric Platform Architecture).
  • CATL high-density slim-profile prismatic battery pack, 110mm height, 80.9kWh with energy density reaching 170Wh/kg.
  • Fast charging: from 30% to 80% charge as fast as 28 mins, 120km range in 10 mins; with China’s first remote-controlled concealed charging plug.
  • 5-level safety design: Passive, battery, active, air quality and data security measures.
PLUS - probably better than Tesla's AutoPilot, genuine Level 3 autonomy:

The Xpeng P7 has the strongest autonomous driving architecture among production vehicles in China. Powered by NVIDIA's DRIVE Xavier, the P7 operates both the XPILOT3.0 and XPILOT2.0 systems concurrently to provide complete redundancy. The XPILOT3.0 reaches high levels of Functional Safety to offer guaranteed stability and security. As the foundation of the Xpeng P7s technology, the safety framework is designed and benchmarked to C-NCAP 5-star standards.

The Xpeng G3 is already arguably a better EV, value for money certainly, than the Model 3, as shown recently by Bjorn Nyland.

The New XJ/eXJ is the latest version of Jaguar booking a reservation for a boat that sailed, about ten years before.

The XJ220, the C-X75 and now the eXJ - all obsolete, fossils, massively overpriced jokes, before they were even launched, or considered to be launched, in the case of C-X75 - binned as it was up against real, stunning cars, like the Porsche 918, LaFerrari, and even the McLaren P1.

Porsche can charge £100-200k for its cars, because it is unique - its engineers and test drivers/developers are the best. The rest of the world, in any decent volume, not sub 10k units/year specialists, has to charge half or a quarter of that, as with this Xpeng P7, for a very good, pretty well cutting edge car. So why does/did Jaguar/JLR think they can/could charge Porsche-pricing for a very sub Xpeng car, like the eXJ would have been, or even the near £100k for the obsolete I-Pace?

The world has moved on massively since 2016, when JLR thought they had a lead, a large one, over everyone but Tesla, and they were 'Premium', so unique, and this would allow the owner, Tata, to fight off suitors, trying to buy JLR.

That was The Plan, but a) the I-Pace was late, 12-18 months to final, first customer deliveries, in late 2018, and then within weeks of that, it became clear the car was bogus, fake, from the range, to the charging speed, to the (non-)development, to everything, and so the I-Pace went from JLR's shop window, to get it sold, to its sheet anchor, millstone around its neck, by early 2019, just when Tata and the media were telling the world PSA had bought JLR.

Now, almost 18 months on from that desperate lie, the world has moved at warp speed from JLR, with this ~£40k - top spec - Chinese EV, making a mockery of the double the price Gamechanger, not to mention the probably £100-150k priced 2020/'21 eXJ.

It's like JLR is now standing in quicksand, and it thinks by running faster and faster - more and more PR/lying - it can escape, rather than just sinking faster by doing this.

5,089 Posts
Can you imagine Speth doing a podcast?:

Can you imagine a mythical creature, 'leader', called Speth?

Diess is a man on a mission, and knows VW/VW group/Porsche has the world at its feet, more so than even pre 2015.

His only danger is letting the cat out of the bag too much, on the reality of things - 'we will crush Tesla - a f'ing pipsqueak and sideshow'.

Diess know the main event is China, not the Loon(and not JLR's EVs of course), and the real threat by his own backyard wrecker - Marxist globalist puppet Merkel, programmed to turn Germany pastoral:

Diess expects "very strong" competition from Chinese firms in the future and reiterated his call for economic stimulus in Germany to help the country steer clear of a prolonged recession.
Speth? - a man on a mission to hide, and count off the days to September, and his ~£100m pension pot.

5,089 Posts
The Public School/Oxbridge/Bullingdon Club/Mayfair hedge funders strike again - 'saving the UK car industry':

Britain’s farmers and carmakers will be protected under a new post-Brexit trade regime that will result in 60% of goods coming into the country tariff-free from the start of next year, the government has announced.

Let's see:

A. we have no carmakers or 'UK car industry' - all foreign-owned, including vast majority of Tier 1/systems suppliers

B. we import around 90% of the cars/vans/trucks that are sold in the UK, and the majority of those from the EU, so a 10% tariff, compared to the Single Market 0% now, is actually a 10% price hike for UK consumers - so "protecting" whom?

C. Most importantly, imposing a 10% tariff on cars, trucks and buses from the EU, almost certainly means the EU will reciprocate - why would they not?

D. that means not only will JLR be hampered by a new 10% extra cost on the price they can sell their cars in the EU, compared to now, but also true volume, global makers, like Nissan-Renault, will have their already teetering European business destroyed, with the SUVs made in Sunderland - Qashqai and Juke - plus the proposed, mooted Renault equivalents, currently made in Spain, moving there.

A Qashqai, or a Juke, or a Kadjar, or whatever £20-30k car, does not have 10% profit in it already, in a cut-throat European market, where VAG is king, with its around 5 million cars a year off its MQB platform, and 1 million cars alone a year out of low-wage Czech Republic, at least half of which are SUVs.

Don't these privately-educated at today's price of £35k a year fees, and PPE or whatever at 'the finest universities in the world', know that, or did they go to these places just because mummy and daddy were 'someone', and they had the loot to pay these ridiculous fees, not on merit or ability?

Who are these clowns protecting? The don't deal with the real world - pounds, shillings, pence, making and selling something for more than it costs - because they've never had to, and fully intend not to, until they croak it.

So we get this nonsense from 'big brains' Cummings, from the idle, body mass index 35+ - 17.5 stone, 5'9" - 'F Business' [email protected], and the know-nothing twentysomething SpAds.

What a mess. Britain's insane, feudal 'elite' system - private schools, old school tie, private Pall Mall clubs etc - is coming back to bite it and rip it a new one, as these clowns play at running a counrty, that they know nothing about, or have any skin in, since centuries, maybe as far back as 'Good King' Alfred the Great.

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The news on the No Deal, 10% import tariff on EU cars, and presumably at least also on vans, trucks and buses, has been out for around 7 hours now, but obviously not enough time for the trade body that claims to represent the interests of this sector to comment, on a trifling matter - the life or death of what remained of the automotive industry in Britain:

This lickspittle organisation is torn between not rocking the boat, doing its customary brown-nosing job of the status quo and establishment, no doubt the current CEO hoping for some recognition for his sterling efforts promoting UK industry, an MBE/OBE, maybe even a CBE/kinighthood, and screaming at the top of its lungs the bleeding obvious, doing the job it's paid to do, by its members' no doubt hefty subscriptions and fees:


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So this is what Spaffer/Cummings meant by All In It Together and Sunlit Uplands - bandits like multi-millionaire 'Prof' Kevin Morley and NYC billionaire vulture capitalists defrauding ex-Remploy handicapped workers out of their rightful few bob from decades of service, told to basically 'p!ss off and die' over the phone:

Redundancy row erupts at JlR supplier
Enda Mullen

Disabled workers at a major Jaguar Land Rover supplier based in Coventry are losing out to the tune of more than £1m in redundancy payments it has been claimed.

The claims regarding Arlington Automotive Group, which has fallen into administration, were made by the GMB Union, which has accused the company of “pushing their disabled workers into the gutter”.

The union claims 52 disabled workers are missing out on more than £1 million in redundancy payments.

It said that one worker at the company, which makes parts for Jaguar Land Rover, stands to lose more than £56,000 in redundancy pay accrued over a lifetime of service.

Around 600 jobs are under threat at Arlington, which counts names such as JLR and Nissan among its clients.

Administrators from Duff & Phelps were appointed to the UK trading companies of the firm, which specialises in products such as bespoke thermostats for vehicles and the manufacture and assembly of engineered vehicle systems.

The company’s UK operations are headquartered in Coventry with bases in Birmingham, Manchester, Newton Aycliffe, Reading and Stourport while its Derby site had already commenced closure.

The GMB makes a number of accusations regarding the company’s treatment of disabled workers, including at least 20 staff members being told they were losing their jobs over the phone with immediate effect - despite some workers being hearing-impaired, non-verbal or unable to understand what was being explained.

The union said that on Monday May 18 several hearing-impaired workers turned up for their scheduled shifts having received no communication about their redundancies.

It branded the situation between Arlington and administrators Duff and Phelps as “dysfunctional” and said the automotive firm’s HR department only found out about the firm going into administration via the media.

GMB Organiser Becky Mitchell claimed the firm had made workers redundant by phone while not paying them settlements owed due to their service.

She said: “Arlington Automotive is pushing disabled workers into the gutter.

“At least 20 members of staff were called and (made redundant) over the phone. HR told our workers to go and claim money off the Government. [- will no one think of poor 'Prof' Morley, and the New York billionaires, the mouths they have to feed, not sleeping at night, worrying where their next billion shekels is going to be robbed from?]

“They’re disabled, many of them can’t read or write, how are they going to do that?

“We won’t stand for this despicable treatment of our members, many of whom are disabled and suffer with mental health problems.

“The fact they are choosing to do this mid-pandemic shows you just how little they care for working people.” [ah yes, under cover of The Thing, just as the shyster outfit Arlington used to supply to has done at every turn and opportunity]

In response the administrators said they would continue to have dialogue with the GMB and that consultation with workers was ongoing.

A spokesman for the joint administrators of Arlington Automotive said: “We have welcomed the dialogue with the GMB throughout this process and the support it is offering its members at this difficult time. [ oh sh!t! we got caught.]

“The employees have been subject to ongoing consultation processes with the support of the GMB; and employees were all given notice of redundancy prior to our appointment, the Birmingham site itself was no longer operational.”

The spokesman added: “Arlington Engineered Systems Limited could not continue to trade as all of its customers had stopped placing orders due to coronavirus.

“Given the wider backdrop of the difficulties in the automotive sector the business had no option but to appoint administrators. [that Thing is so damn useful!]

“In relation to those made redundant the joint administrators took steps to communicate with employees at the earliest opportunity to explain the impact of the administration on the ongoing redundancy process.

“In doing so, to ensure employees safety the joint administrators adhered to government advice around social distancing when considering how to communicate with the employees and recruited a specialist firm in order to notify them and provide them with support in lodging their claims with the Redundancy Payments Service. [ heh heh!, nice use of The Thing again to tell this massive porkie] [ a firm who is lowest bidder/owned by a friend of the one of the administrators, and on a massive bonus to get the sp** not to take up their rightful, by-law redundancy package - otherwise known as theft]

“The Redundancy Payments Service will meet employee claims subject to the statutory limits in place and any residual balances owed to the employees will be claimable in the administration process.”


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Remind me again, who are the disruptors, and who are the legacy, compliance, dinosaur makers?:

Will The Loon blame The Thing, or make some diversion about 'Red Pilling' or 'Freedom!'?

The Germans and Volvo all saw pretty good Aprils in China, some actually up on 2019, but the Loon and his 'disruptor' outfit can't give his shonky, life-threatening crap away. I wonder why?

It's even worse with 'Euro Disruptor', JLR/Jaguar, who unlike The Loon, apparently dares not even publish its now nearly three weeks ago April 'sales' figures, which will have been massaged to within an inch of their lives, but unlike UK's, can't be miraculously boosted 100-200% by self-registrations, hence probably why they can't publish them - they're Tesla-bad, or even worse - 70, 80% down? Zip?

Tesla and JLR have been found out - nothing to do with The Thing. The Chinese can, and do, buy much better, cheaper cars from their own country's makers, or German, Swedish and even American, Ford, Buick etc, ones, whether ICE, PHEV or BEV, but not crap from PR outfits that can/will kill you, or not work and can/will kill you, like JLR, and charge you 2, 3 times the price for the privilege.

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You don't say... :

JLR had a lot of money spread about with 3rd parties working on various programmes (including a number of EV projects), but they have been withdrawing from them for a while, so this is just the latest in their trimming down.

- from feast - ~2013-2018/19 - to biblical famine.

That's not a serious business, that's a ponzi, and pump and dump operation, a get rich quick vehicle for insiders and looting owners.

The slash and burn in new product programmes and R&D is as nothing though to those poor buggers reliant on JLR's day to day production side, like Remploy/Arlington above, who will have seen their delivery schedules go from 'booming JLR' up until as recently as 18 months ago - JLR keeping up the pretence since their real collapse in 2016 - to BL on stilts on now - 'please DO NOT deliver until further notice'.

It's also not the way to run a serious, mature economy, ...unless you want it designed to make it wide open to kleptomaniacs, like 'Sir' Speth, 'Prof' Morley, and of course the hedge fund/private equity/venture capitalist mob, which is exactly what happened to the UK from 1980 onwards - sold to the taken-in plebs as 'trickle-down', i.e. 'you'll all be millionaires, to our billionaires, by this time next year'.
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