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No he won't be…..’World Car Design of the Year’ too!!


75 international jurors can't be wrong, can they!! I'm sure we'll get a reason why they are, except it would then call into question the other winners:


BMW - World Urban Car of the Year (i3),
Mercedes - World Luxury Car of the Year (E Class),
Porsche’- World Performance Car of the Year (Boxter/Cayman)
 

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It is a conspiracy to destroy the German car industry.

There. I said it. :)
 

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Not a good report at all.
What I don’t understand is how, given all of your reporting that the Diesel Ingenium engine is failing real world testing, that the F-Pace as tested ever got past what is described as the most rigorous pollution testing that is applied by the EPA ?
it isn't though, is it. EPA's test is a lab test, like Europe's NEDC - rolling road, 23 deg.C etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTP-75

But that's not the point. EPA is political. Dieselgate was all about cheat software to pass EPA for VW group diesels. And yet JLR diesels fail as tested by Emissions Analytics, ADAC, the German transport ministry, the UK Dept. of Transport... in real driving.

Is that not enough grounds for EPA to check JLR's diesel also aren't cheating the lab rolling road test? All they have to do is strap on a PEMS machine. Why aren't they doing it? Why isn't any US body, from car mags to the DoJ, doing this?

There's only one logical conclusion: JLR is a protected species. Confirmed by no crash test of a JLR by NHTSA(or IIHS) since Tata's takeover in 2008.

Anyone acquainted with the matter knows JLR would fail a US PEMS test; that's why it won't be done.

They'll continue to harrass Daimler and Bosch for billions, though.

It doesn't matter now. JLR is finished, with just the UK and bits of the US functioning for them, and both markets about to tank, by around 40%, which will be the end.

It was all a game - Dieselgate, the villain VW, the media outcry against 'The Cheat' - and is just the last thrashings of a dying regime of corrupt, evil vermin who have had it good for 30, 40 years, whose pathological greed has destroyed the system they preyed on.
 

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Incredible how this company exists at all:

F-Pace, introduced into market April 2016, still no crash test by EuroNCAP, nor by NHTSA/IIHS in the US. Why?

Alfa Stelvio introduced into market June 2017, crash tested by EuroNCAP June 2017 - 5* (highest score ever?)

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/alfa-romeo/stelvio/27419

EuroNCAP weighed the tested 2.2-litre 4WD diesel at 1,745kg, which compares to the 1,970 kg weight of the F-Pace 20d AWD tested by Car&Driver.

So no crash test, anywhere, 15 months on from being on-sale, and it weighs 200-250 kilos more than the competiton, as I said it did, due to it being on a 'F segment' platform' - Jag XJ, Range Rover Sport - as opposed to the 'D Segment' Guilia-on-stilts Stelvio.

This rubbish can't go on.
 

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What I don’t understand is how, given all of your reporting that the Diesel Ingenium engine is failing real world testing, that the F-Pace as tested ever got past what is described as the most rigorous pollution testing that is applied by the EPA ?
Actually, the EPA did not test the Ingenium for compliance. The automakers self-test and provide a report to the EPA together with other documentation (emissions control devices installed, software controls programming, etc). The EPA can ask questions or accept the automaker ratings. The EPA conducts a sampling test on about 15% of certified models every year to monitor compliance.

So at this time all we know is that Jaguar claims to pass EPA emissions in their internal tests. And that is nothing hard to do. It just costs money in additional exhaust after-treatment. Those options are missing from European spec Ingenium cars.
 

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So at this time all we know is that Jaguar claims to pass EPA emissions in their internal tests. And that is nothing hard to do. It just costs money in additional exhaust after-treatment. Those options are missing from European spec Ingenium cars.
eh? Every Ingenium and V6 diesel-engined JLR has SCR, whether sold in US or not, since 2015 - Euro 6 introduction.

What's this "addditonal after-treatment" so?

Let's be logical, if it was just a matter of 'extra', for the US market, to meet EPA regs, why hasn't JLR done that to European vehicles since the disastrous real driving results of the German transport ministry tests in early 2016?

Dieselgate broke in Sep 2015, and yet ADAC and Emissions Analytica are still testing JLRs and finding 6-10 times the permissible level of NOx almost 2 years on.

Why would JLR be so dumb to not just tweak their vehicles, as per the US ones, to avoid all this embarrassing publicity and possble bans in continental Europe from RDE testing in September?

The answer is they can't. Ingenium, and the 13 year old V6, are fundamentally non-compliant, and require major re-engineering, not just of SCR cat size, AdBlue reservior size, software tweaks, but also the fundamental combustion.

Mercedes have had to do precisely this for their aging current 3-litre V6 diesel, OM642, which has just been released for the E-Class, over a year on from launch, due to the re-engineering required for RDE, with larger SCR cat, for one.

BMW have just announced that their 2-litre diesel is being pretty comprehensively re-engineered too, with more air through twin-stage turbocharging, to reduce NOx.

JLR is not RDE compliant. Any US tester with a PEMS kit would expose them, which is why Virginia Tech, ICCT, the EPA, DoJ, Uncle Tom Cobley, won't go near it.

It doesn't matter, Baron, as a $66k, slow, two and a quarter ton 'sports SUV', with fuel mileage similar to the 2-litre ~250hp petrols from the Germans and the new Alfa, is the **** in the punch bowl, and will just be a curio for car geeks, but not buyers.
 

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Let's be logical, if it was just a matter of 'extra', for the US market, to meet EPA regs, why hasn't JLR done that to European vehicles since the disastrous real driving results of the German transport ministry tests in early 2016?
Errr....because they are not required to. Because it costs more money. Because Europeans never cared about diesel pollution until it was publicized by an American rural university student.
 

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No doubt supplied with a whopping discount :)


@JRRBatchelor
IMG_0687.jpg



DVLA INFORMATION:


  • Vehicle make: JAGUAR
  • Date of first registration: December 2016
  • Year of manufacture: 2016
  • Cylinder capacity (cc): 2993 cc
  • CO₂Emissions: 159 g/km
  • Fuel type: DIESEL
  • Export marker: No
  • Vehicle status: Tax not due
  • Vehicle colour: WHITE
  • Vehicle type approval: M1
  • Wheelplan: 2 AXLE RIGID BODY
 

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No doubt supplied with a whopping discount :)
think I saw the very same vehicle back around April this year. Suspect it's a demonstrator from JLR, gratis to UK Plod, as there appears to be no individual Force markings on it, just generic blue-yellow etc., and the 'OE' plate suggests it's registered to/by JLR, and not 'BX' for Birmingham say.

Besides, which supposedly cash-strapped local authority is going to sign off on their Plod buying even a 40%-discounted V6 diesel F-Pace for £35k?, when the Met for example can get 5-Series Tourings or X5s for similar, and they're not thrown together in Solihull?
 

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Isn't that the first police Jaguar since the seventies or something like that? Apart from the one belonging to Superintendent Mullet in the television series "A Touch of Frost". Oh, and Barnaby also drove an X-Type for a while in "Midsomer Murders". The Mk. 2 belonging to Inspector Morse is much older.
As you can see, my knowledge of the UK mainly comes from watching television series like these. Not to mention Fawlty Towers, Keeping up Appearances, Monty Python, Not the nine o'clock news and so on. I normally get quite disappointed, when I visit the UK. The hotel staff is very ordinary compared to Mr. Fawlty.
 

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Isn't that the first police Jaguar since the seventies or something like that? Apart from the one belonging to Superintendent Mullet in the television series "A Touch of Frost". Oh, and Barnaby also drove an X-Type for a while in "Midsomer Murders". The Mk. 2 belonging to Inspector Morse is much older.
As you can see, my knowledge of the UK mainly comes from watching television series like these. Not to mention Fawlty Towers, Keeping up Appearances, Monty Python, Not the nine o'clock news and so on. I normally get quite disappointed, when I visit the UK. The hotel staff is very ordinary compared to Mr. Fawlty.
XF has been a Police car for a long time

IMG_0688.jpg

http://www.xfforum.co.uk/threads/2702
 

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Discussion Starter #18

.....Besides, which supposedly cash-strapped local authority is going to sign off on their Plod buying even a 40%-discounted V6 diesel F-Pace for £35k?, when the Met for example can get 5-Series Tourings or X5s for similar, and they're not thrown together in Solihull?
Its about time tax payer funded bodies such as the police were required to buy cars and other good made in this country where available, supporting local industry etc. The German police generally drive home produced cars as do the French and Italians.
 

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.....Besides, which supposedly cash-strapped local authority is going to sign off on their Plod buying even a 40%-discounted V6 diesel F-Pace for £35k?, when the Met for example can get 5-Series Tourings or X5s for similar, and they're not thrown together in Solihull?
Its about time tax payer funded bodies such as the police were required to buy cars and other good made in this country where available, supporting local industry etc. The German police generally drive home produced cars as do the French and Italians.
The difficultly with that is that BMW is supporting many thousands of jobs in the UK. Metropolitan Police are running many BMWs including the i3 electric. No doubt the next round of purchases will be for the 5 and 3 series Hybrids because they need to acknowledge the efforts being made by their boss, Sadiq Khan to clean up the air.

Jaguar doesn’t have the right cars at present.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
But if the present cars are petrol or diesel rather than electric or hybrid they could have been a home manufactured product rather than an import couldn't they?
 
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