Jaguar XE MY2020 facelift - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydrajaws View Post
    Sorry Guys but my “Mole” did not get this right but I did ask “yes or no” that the facelifed XE was cancelled as part of the cost saving measures now in place at JLR. Perhaps longer term the replacement for the XE will not happen.
    no problem. It's much ado about nothing anyway.

    Autocar trying to cover its client's embarrassment, obfuscating why the I6 Ingenium hasn't appeared:

    Jaguar Land Rover has just released a new inline six-cylinder petrol engine in the Range Rover Sport, but with the XE S axed due to slow sales it remains to be seen whether that engine will return to the larger models.
    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-follow-new-xe

    - they're trying to imply that the Ingenium I6 no-showed because there was no point - 'slow sales of large engine petrol saloons'.

    Yes, but that's the UK. What explains the no-show of the Ingenium I6 in the US?

    F'ing weasels are having a hard time covering for their master's mistakes.

    Just come clean, like Speth should have done in 2013, and say the I6 is no more, because: '4-cylinder mild hybrids and PHEVs can cover 80-90% of customers, and EVs on the new 'MLA' platform will take over the high power, high price offering from 2020'.

    No charge for the free press release.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMVIrep View Post
    no problem. It's much ado about nothing anyway.

    Autocar trying to cover its client's embarrassment, obfuscating why the I6 Ingenium hasn't appeared:



    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...-follow-new-xe

    - they're trying to imply that the Ingenium I6 no-showed because there was no point - 'slow sales of large engine petrol saloons'.

    Yes, but that's the UK. What explains the no-show of the Ingenium I6 in the US?

    F'ing weasels are having a hard time covering for their master's mistakes.

    Just come clean, like Speth should have done in 2013, and say the I6 is no more, because: '4-cylinder mild hybrids and PHEVs can cover 80-90% of customers, and EVs on the new 'MLA' platform will take over the high power, high price offering from 2020'.

    No charge for the free press release.
    Interesting, they only sell the 300 petrol in the states in R-dynamic trim and only the 250 petrol in pure, both RWD & AWD but both are badged S.

    You are completely right no V6 will kill them in the states, I can't see them not releasing it - they can't bin off I6 because as you rightly surmise in your other post it is required for LR.

    Hydrajaws

    I've also heard rumour of XE coming to an end after this one and given the conjecture about them merging the two into a single electric car I suspect that it has legs.

    Also rumours of new XJ flying around, apparently massive, electric and fastback, old XJ has finally been made EOL.

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag SM View Post

    The absence of the 6 cylinder doesn't surprise me, if I was Jaguar I'd save that for 6-12 months to bring a load more press and get the car out there again once the initial hype had died down. This is exactly the marketing strategy everyone else uses eg GTI PP/R, S3/RS3, M series etc etc.
    Errrr....No. In fact BMW has done exactly the opposite. The new 3-series launches in the USA exclusively with the new I6 engine with 382HP and a 4.2sec 0-60MPH time. The I4 2.0 arriving a bit later.

    As I posted on the other thread, the changes to style in the XE are all good and welcome. But having the car top out at 296BHP and 4cyl engines is simply ridiculous in this day and age.
    Hailing from: New England, USA
    Jaguar XF Ownership History: 2009 XF-SC(SV8), 2010 XFR, 2012 V8 Portfolio
    Looking For: Good Handling/Light Jaguar Sports Car and Off-Road Capable Land Rover

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  6. #14
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    I like it. But I would lke to see a new XF more.
    2014 3.0L D V6 R SPORT Saloon start stop Stratus Grey Metalic 19inch Aquilla wheels Park sensors Reverse camera Heated screen Keyless entry

  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag SM View Post
    Also rumours of new XJ flying around, apparently massive, electric and fastback
    - bit like this, then:

    https://www.germancarforum.com/attac...5-jpeg.470791/

    - new Flying Spur.

    Bentley has moved into the spot where the XJ would have been if it had evolved properly from 1968 to today - S-Class+/Maybach/Bentley territory.

    Bentley under Vickers etc was a joke, at the time of the first XJ onwards.

    Now that it's a LWB Porsche Panamera, with the option of a 12-cylinder, it's - to me - the best car in the world - where the Series I XJ was, arguably.

    The point I'm making is VAG's Bentley has replaced and made obsolete Jaguar - the real Jaguar - large, powerful, luxury saloons.

    From a UK point of view, Bentley has also made JLR's Jaguar moot. Why do we need Jaguar anymore, when we have the world beater, world leader Bentley, knocking out around 20,000 cars, maybe 30-40,000, when the XJ is now barely doing 10,000/yr?

    JLR can promise, and promise all they like, about a just around the corner new EV XJ, but that will be overwhelmed by the likes of the Merc EQS, just over a year away.

    No, the new Flying spur is everything the range topper, 'best car in the world' XJ should have been by now, if it had had two genuinely new generations since Ford's 2003 X350.

    2019 Bentley is 1960s 'Lyons'' Jaguar - pregnant with possibility, funds, tech knowhow, and a wave of new product, that will put Bentley even beyond the Merc S-Class, as seen by the fantastic new Continental GT/GTC - 2 door Panameras.

    VAG is back to being a steam roller, with even Daimler and BMW terrified, hence these two's first steps to cooperate - merger?

    We in UK need to recognise and accept that Bentley is the UK's future, and Jaguar/JLR the past.

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag SM View Post
    Also rumours of new XJ flying around, apparently massive, electric and fastback, old XJ has finally been made EOL.
    Going EV XJ, if it exists, is mental. Remember the story put out by the media earlier this week that the next Porsche Macan would be EV? Well... :

    “The move to a fully electric model line-up is suitable for certain markets but, due to a lack of infrastructure and other hurdles, it is yet not possible in other markets,” said Porsche. “We are constantly monitoring the situation and can react accordingly.”
    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...ric-model-2021

    So the 'next Porsche Macan goes EV' story was 100% BS.

    What Porsche/VAG is actually doing is what a sensible, normal car company would do - ride both horses - EV and ICE.

    The 'next-gen Macan EV' is actually nothing of the sort, but just another version of the 'PPE'-platformed Taycan/Audi e-tron GT/Taycan Turismo etc.

    The just facelifteted 2014- Macan, is the actual Macan, that will live on past the intro of the PPE 'Macan', in 2020/21.

    What Porsche is doing is no different to Merc and BMW, with the nominal 'EV S-Class', the EQS, whilst the real S-Class continues with the 2020 'W223'.

    BMW similarly with the X3 and iX3, and so on.

    To junk the XJ and go EV is madness. You'd only do it if you were a very small company or very hard up.

    That's why JLR is doing it. They cannot afford to develop an S-Class competitor, given that the current XJ dates back to 2003, and the 'W223' S-Class is just around the corner, so JLR is effectively 3 generations behind, which would take billiions, thousands of engineers and 5-7 years to try and claw back.

    The top people at VAG, Daimler and BMW know that EV is currently in the mania/cult phase, which will pass in 1-2 years, as they become more common, and people wonder what all the fuss was about, especially when they have to pay ~$10k more for a similar car to their old ICE.

    So, these companies are keeping ICE bubbling away on the back burner for now, knowing there will be a backlash, and the occurring grand solar minimum will literally cool people's ardour for EV, particularly in the wealthy areas of above 40 deg. latitude.

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron95 View Post
    Errrr....No. In fact BMW has done exactly the opposite. The new 3-series launches in the USA exclusively with the new I6 engine with 382HP and a 4.2sec 0-60MPH time. The I4 2.0 arriving a bit later.

    As I posted on the other thread, the changes to style in the XE are all good and welcome. But having the car top out at 296BHP and 4cyl engines is simply ridiculous in this day and age.
    Interesting, that isn't even offered in Europe yet from what I can tell.

    For better or worse Jag's upper mid range is now 4 cylinder and anything 6 cylinder will be branded S or above. In all fairness to Jaguar Audi doesn't have a 6 cylinder A4 or A3, Volvo doesn't have a 6 cylinder anything, Porsche doesn't retail anything 6 cylinder in that price range, Alfa 6 cylinder begins at Quadrifoglio so its really only Mercedes that offer 6 cylinder models for circa £50k starting price in Europe.

    If/When Jaguar launch XE 6 cylinder I'd expect it to have 400+ bhp so it would compete with M3, C63 & Quadrifoglio and cost the thick end of £60k.

    I don't disagree with you though - as I said that will kill them in the states. My comments on marketing were aimed at the european market sorry for not making that clearer.

  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag SM View Post
    Interesting, that isn't even offered in Europe yet from what I can tell.

    For better or worse Jag's upper mid range is now 4 cylinder and anything 6 cylinder will be branded S or above. In all fairness to Jaguar Audi doesn't have a 6 cylinder A4 or A3, Volvo doesn't have a 6 cylinder anything, Porsche doesn't retail anything 6 cylinder in that price range, Alfa 6 cylinder begins at Quadrifoglio so its really only Mercedes that offer 6 cylinder models for circa £50k starting price in Europe.
    - the majorly facelifted, effectively new series car, A4, is within months of launch, which will have an 'S4', with the V6, after being dropped from the current car for WLTP/particulate filter.

    - Volvo is outselling JLR 2:1 in the real world, as its image is safety, not outright performance, with Polestar PHEV and now BEV taking that role

    - Porsche? It has access to VAG's petrol V6 for the Macan, and has wised up to wealthy punters willing to pay for nat-asp sports cars, its six cylinder in the Cayman GT4, 992 911 GT cars etc.

    Alfa has a 280 PS petrol 4-cylinder, compared to JLR's true sub-200 PS Ingenium 4-pot.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jag SM View Post
    If/When Jaguar launch XE 6 cylinder I'd expect it to have 400+ bhp so it would compete with M3, C63 & Quadrifoglio and cost the thick end of £60k.
    '400+ bhp' doesn't compete with X3/X4 Ms, M3s etc. BMW's new 'S58' I6 M motor is stated at 510 PS, in the Competition version, meaning at least that in reality. And that's just the start of the development of this new engine - around 540 PS should be attainable.

    You're dreaming if you think JLR's engineers will get within 100 hp of that.

    Speth failed. His failure to buy BMW's 6 and V8, or VAG's in 2013, is the cause of JLR's engine-rooted failure now.

  11. #19
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    This will decimate the 'new' XE:

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/3-...0e-2019-review

    Crucially, it starts under £40k for private buyers, and for business drivers its BiK is 16% for 2019/20, versus 30% for the most efficient diesel XE, with the 4% 'RDE Step 2' discount of 4% included.

    So around £2,000 less company car tax(40% taxpayer) for the plug-in 3-Series versus an XE 180PS 20d SE(£36k list price).

    Plus, the 330e is a far faster, far better car.

    JLR should have stuck a fork in the XE around 2017.

  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMVIrep View Post
    This will decimate the 'new' XE:

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/3-...0e-2019-review

    Crucially, it starts under £40k for private buyers, and for business drivers its BiK is 16% for 2019/20, versus 30% for the most efficient diesel XE, with the 4% 'RDE Step 2' discount of 4% included.

    So around £2,000 less company car tax(40% taxpayer) for the plug-in 3-Series versus an XE 180PS 20d SE(£36k list price).

    Plus, the 330e is a far faster, far better car.

    JLR should have stuck a fork in the XE around 2017.
    We will see, it will be great value if they are giving the electric motor and battery for an extra £5k but I think it'll be a £7k-£8k premium over 320i.

    Will do well for company car drivers though.

 

 

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