E-Pace is said to be Mild Hybrid - Page 5
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  1. #41
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    Just for example the current Golf E weighs 200 kg more than the non hybrid version and is much slower as a result.

    It also costs more than GBP1000 more to buy.

    There is no market for these hybrids as yet. Unless they can get the weight down and the price down only greenie weenie idiots will buy a hybrid.

    Of course if IC power is banned significantly that would change matters, but the free market would still prefer IC only.

    Just BTW, there is no indication that Magna will be assembling a hybrid version of the E Pace. In fact, many will be FWD IC power only, not even AWD.
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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagular View Post
    Just for example the current Golf E weighs 200 kg more than the non hybrid version and is much slower as a result.

    It also costs more than GBP1000 more to buy.

    There is no market for these hybrids as yet. Unless they can get the weight down and the price down only greenie weenie idiots will buy a hybrid.

    Of course if IC power is banned significantly that would change matters, but the free market would still prefer IC only.

    Just BTW, there is no indication that Magna will be assembling a hybrid version of the E Pace. In fact, many will be FWD IC power only, not even AWD.

    As I said b******s, check out Jaguar's US XE sales numbers and compare them with their competitor BMW or Audi electric offerings.

    IMG_0707.jpg

    Also note the VW Golf e numbers, before the arrival of their latest model, the car with no market according to you.
    Then check out the VW Golf e sales in Europe

    E-Pace without an electric option and depending on diesel is crazy.

    XE US sales 2017 numbers = right hand column:

    January 693
    February 993
    March 1.336
    April 742
    May 598 764
    June 633 638
    July 641
    August 901
    September 829
    October 941
    November 951
    December 1.162

    Jaguar

    XE
    2016 6.656
    Now spot the VW electric offering,with no market, in the country that really struggled to embrace EVs, Germany.

    IMG_0708.jpg

    More VW electric cars sold in June than all Jaguar models combined in the same month. No market indeed.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pekem View Post
    As I said b******s, check out Jaguar's US XE sales numbers and compare them with their competitor BMW or Audi electric offerings.


    Also note the VW Golf e numbers, before the arrival of their latest model, the car with no market according to you.
    Then check out the VW Golf e sales in Europe

    E-Pace without an electric option and depending on diesel is crazy.

    XE US sales 2017 numbers = right hand column:



    Now spot the VW electric offering,with no market, in the country that really struggled to embrace EVs, Germany.

    More VW electric cars sold in June than all Jaguar models combined in the same month. No market indeed.
    Mixing apples with walnuts makes a salad not an argument.

    You are quite wrong.

    VW sells five times as many Golf GTI as it does eGolf. VW sells more than ten times as many ordinary Golfs as it does eGolf. VW sells 100 times more IC vehicles than it does eGolf. The eGolf is a heavy pointless vehicle nobody wants.

    Jaguar has increased its total sales by something close to 80% in 2016, TOTAL sales. The XE is selling just fine (nearly 6,000 so far into the US market, nearly as many as for 2016, and three times as many as VW sold eGolfs) and Jaguar can barely build them fast enough because their production capacity is occupied with the fast selling (and fast) F Pace.

    The comparison you should be looking for is hybrid sales versus the sales of the similar IC only models. You will be better informed if you do.
    Last edited by jagular; 14-07-17 at 23:29.
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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagular View Post
    Mixing apples with walnuts makes a salad not an argument.

    You are quite wrong.

    VW sells five times as many Golf GTI as it does eGolf. VW sells more than ten times as many ordinary Golfs as it does eGolf. VW sells 100 times more IC vehicles than it does eGolf. The eGolf is a heavy pointless vehicle nobody wants.

    Jaguar has increased its total sales by something close to 80% in 2016, TOTAL sales. The XE is selling just fine (nearly 6,000 so far into the US market, nearly as many as for 2016, and three times as many as VW sold eGolfs) and Jaguar can barely build them fast enough because their production capacity is occupied with the fast selling (and fast) F Pace.

    The comparison you should be looking for is hybrid sales versus the sales of the similar IC only models. You will be better informed if you do.

    More VW electric cars sold in June than all Jaguar models combined in the same month. No market indeed.
    As I said - utter b******s

    You Jagular said:

    Because there is no market for hybrid systems. Nobody wants to pay for them.
    So there is a market - more VW electric cars sold in Germany in the month of June than all Jaguar models combined in the same period.

    2016, TOTAL sales. The XE is selling just fine (nearly 6,000 so far into the US market, nearly as many as for 2016,
    We are in 2017 and the numbers today show that Jaguar’s + 70% is now down to + 25% in Europe.

  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pekem View Post
    As I said - utter b******s

    You Jagular said:



    So there is a market - more VW electric cars sold in Germany in the month of June than all Jaguar models combined in the same period.



    We are in 2017 and the numbers today show that Jaguar’s + 70% is now down to + 25% in Europe.
    Still purveying fruit salad.

    Even mild hybrids weigh 400 to 500 lbs (200kg) more than the equivalent IC powered car, regardless of size as this is the minimum weight of current hybrid drives. This is because of the required battery and the fact that the electric motor is a dense conglomeration of heavy metal whereas even a Diesel engine is mostly empty space.

    Comparing sales of VW to sales of Jaguars is irrelevant to the argument. You suggest, imply or whatever (but don't ever actually state, presumably because to do so would make you look like an idiot) that JLR needs to build electrified vehicles to be successful. The facts, inconvenient though these are to your argument, prove otherwise. JLR is increasing its sales with no electric car of any kind in its line up. JLR has increased its sales by a huge margin without a petrol Ingenium engine, just now coming on line. JLR has sold many, many diesel powered cars during the period of its success, contrary to your continued bleating that the buying public won't stand for diesels any longer.

    VWAG produces many, many more cars than JLR, as does Toyota, but neither Toyota nor VWAG can make any profits from selling electrified cars. They build them for reasons not connected to profitability but to regulation. JLR is now finally in a position where it sells enough IC powered cars that it must build a few money losing electrified cars in order to be allowed by regulation to continue its successful market penetration in two markets: China (a country paying lip service to the Paris Accord while building hundreds of new coal fired power stations) and California (a State full of greenies weenies who know very little about manufacturing profitability).

    There is no impetus outside China and California (Norway is irrelevant to the car business) to develop any market for electrified cars. None whatsoever.
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  8. #46
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    You Jagular said:


    Because there is no market for hybrid systems. Nobody wants to pay for them.



    Presumably all of those deliveries of VW Golf e cars and other Hybrids, in all around 2500, in Germany in June were given away or stolen. I am prepared to believe that all those Ingenium engines were stolen the other month in Birmingham but not all of those cars in Germany

    Give up and admit there is a market for Hybrid systems and one that Jaguar may need to embrace before the launch of their electric I-Pace if the E-Pace is to be a huge success.

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by pekem View Post
    You Jagular said:


    Because there is no market for hybrid systems. Nobody wants to pay for them.



    Presumably all of those deliveries of VW Golf e cars and other Hybrids, in all around 2500, in Germany in June were given away or stolen. I am prepared to believe that all those Ingenium engines were stolen the other month in Birmingham but not all of those cars in Germany

    Give up and admit there is a market for Hybrid systems and one that Jaguar may need to embrace before the launch of their electric I-Pace if the E-Pace is to be a huge success.
    Two questions: how many VWAG cars were sold in Germany in June of (whatever year you are talking about)? and how many of those hybrid cars were sold with no price supports at all. That means no price grant, no parking perks, no HOV lane perks, no fuel tax perks (they all get this one) and so on. I predict that the number of hybrid VW sold was less than 2% of VWAG sales and that each such sale was supported by some price support not offered for IC powered cars.

    You need to give up. Hybrid cars are a no go unless regulation forces people to buy some. Even then the IC will have to be banned before any form of electrified vehicle will become at all popular. Even the modest target of 10% of total sales cannot be achieved without some sort of ban on the IC power.

    As things are today only an idiot could be persuaded to buy a hybrid.
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  10. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagular View Post
    Even mild hybrids weigh 400 to 500 lbs (200kg) more than the equivalent IC powered car, regardless of size as this is the minimum weight of current hybrid drives.
    - you're mixing up plug-in hybrids - ~10kWh battery, ~150kg, motor, ~75kg, plus power electronics,~25kg - with a starter motor doubling as a generator, plus a lithium battery under 1 kWh, similar to a Porsche sports battery or a stop-start battery, weight ~20kg.

    Mild hybridisation weighs no more than all the extra clobber on a Euro 6d/RDE diesel, with its heavy oxidation and SCR cats, plus AdBlue tank.

    edit: we're about to get the driving impressions of the facelifted S-Class, with the new mild hybrid inline six petrol. Will be interesting to see what the non-usual suspects make of this tech, and whether real fuel economy can approach that of diesel, which I suspect it will.
    Last edited by BMVIrep; 15-07-17 at 20:22.

  11. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMVIrep View Post
    - you're mixing up plug-in hybrids - ~10kWh battery, ~150kg, motor, ~75kg, plus power electronics,~25kg - with a starter motor doubling as a generator, plus a lithium battery under 1 kWh, similar to a Porsche sports battery or a stop-start battery, weight ~20kg.

    Mild hybridisation weighs no more than all the extra clobber on a Euro 6d/RDE diesel, with its heavy oxidation and SCR cats, plus AdBlue tank.
    I am not. I'm using published figures.
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