Welcome to the Jaguar XF Forum.
What exactly have I said that is rubbish? Are you expecting me to quote every post in the thread that claims this car was finished 2 years ago and reply to "evidence" such as rumours from autocar? I think once is enough.
Originally Posted by pekem
One thing we do know is it is supposed to be the first MLA vehicle:
MLA is supposed to take ICE & BEV so no it won't be an EV specific platform. It also means it isn't an I-Pace LWB as I-Pace isn't MLA. It also presumably means I6 and BMW V8 options are possible/likely.
Blame me, but the excitement of Goodwood FoS has made us miss the most obvious reason for JLR's/the BBC's announcement on Friday, and the earlier trailing by The Sunday Times last Sunday - the end of XJ production, with nothing to replace it.
Originally Posted by pekem
I said this a while back, to be fair to myself.
JLR and the media needed a way to distract from this disaster - the end of Jaguar's 51 year old XJ, 'Homeland car', with nothing to replace it.
It would be like BMW binning the 3-Series, and covering it up by saying 'we're working on "NextGen 3-Series", which might come out in a year or so; 'nothing to see here, move along'.
Imagine Porsche ending 911 production, and nothing following.
Just wouldn't happen, would it. Heads would roll, CEOs and whole boards. The Bundestag would light up with emergency questions and committees of investigation, looking into this unprecendented disaster for Germany.
JLR, Speth and his team have form. They knew from 2008, Speth in post from 2010, that Defender, "The Icon", couldn't continue without basically a brand new vehicle.
Tata said no - would cost £1 billion upwards.
Speth and his team covered this up, for nearly a decade, with the 2011 DC100, and then special after special of the ancient 1989 Defender.
Even then, the all-new vehicle is just a cynical monocoque Chelsea Tractor, with mud painted on the sides - hey presto, the New Icon.
Same with X351 XJ, 10 years old this month, ample time to make a replacement, but nothing, as Tata won't provide the £2bn upwards to develop something approaching an S-Class/7-Series/A8 competitor.
This was the real news this week - JLR binning their second icon across Jaguar and Land Rover - the XJ following the original Land Rover.
Instead we got tales of £1 billion spend on EV, new models, CB back from the brink etc.
There was also the small matter of lying about the real reason for the six week summer shutdown.
No other car maker in the world gets this PR, propaganda and flatout lies for it.
The root of JLR's problem was and is Tata's refusal to spend money. Once Ford pulled the plug in 2006/7, it was a car coasting to a stop, out of fuel, which took 5 years or so after Ford's investment legacy, and then for the last 6 years, it's been covering up by the media for JLR, as to its complete non product development, and all other tech and systems.
Anything that was done, like Ingenium, was completely financed by thee and me, UK taxpayers. The around £1bn taxpayer funding however, was nowhere near enough to cover the cost of doing a major engine programme, an engine family, plus JLR's terrible engineers, so that the result was appalling.
JLR's only ace is its media machine, now including the BBC roped in to do 24 hour rolling propaganda, as Tata demands it be saved from JLR bankrupting the whole group.
The XJ finishing disaster made PR triumph with the EV/CB annnouncement, is just drawing out JLR's agony. The owner who refuses to invest is still there, and the need for money is growing exponentially. Some grown-ups in govt. need to recognise this, and boot Tata out, and decide how we operate JLR, if at all, 'going forward', as pols and mgt consultants love to say.
F Tata, to coin a current PM candidate phrase. They're yesterday. They can f off back to flogging pig iron round Bombay or pushing dope. We as a country need to decide whether we value car making and engineering, to a similar extent as banking in The Casino.
If we do, and it's not words and platitudes, then £50bn is a bargain compared to bailing out 5-10,000 bonused bankers for £500bn
Time to see what we really value.
Last edited by BMVIrep; 07-07-19 at 16:24.
Production finished on XJ months ago but you are absolutely spot on about the development spend. They would not be in the sticky situation they are now if they had spent the money on MLA back in 2015 when it became obvious that the emissions scandal was going to shake up the industry. Plan should have been made then for more flexible architecture and it should've been launched with E-Pace/Evoke/Velar/New XE and you are absolutely spot on with regards to XJ replacement - if they had spent the money back then it would have been easy to launch the new car. As it is they have an aging line up of product that is getting hammered residuals and a customer base that has no real reason to upgrade because the range rover they bought 3 years ago looks the same as the new range rover on sale today.
Originally Posted by BMVIrep
I don't know when we will actually get to see the new XJ - next year it seems the press thinks but we have heard this before. What is certain is we will see facelifted XF/F-Pace/F-Type next year and none of those will be MLA and we are still yet to see the mild hybrids that were supposed to be here by now - 1.5 engines were supposed to arrive before i6 so where have they gone.
Of course the longer it takes the further ahead the competition gets https://www.eurekar.co.uk/articles/2...new-passat-gte
Gee, I wonder why Sir Ralf didn't launch the I-Pace with a boot/'eXJ' in 2018?:
According to a tow truck driver that picked up my I-Pace
today they have had approx. 200 incidents of I-Paces in Norway
being dead due to one of the 12V batteries. He showed me the placement of the two 12V-batteries, and told me that only one of them is being charged when the car is plugged in. The last one is only charged when the car is driving. Supposedly there is no fix, and every I-Pace will have this issue sooner or later because the charge it receives when driving is not enough.
- funny, not a word of this in the Norwegian media - the one that adores the Brits/loathes the Germans - Telemark etc.
Possibly Sir Ralf thought twice about launching an I-Pace with a boot, plus its sister car Road Rover, and charging cretins £150k for it, probably up to £200k for the latter in SVAutobiography spec, when its development was done for the price of a bag of crisps. Someone had to pay for Sir Ralf's £7m/yr after all.
Maybe the 'Prof' though realised in the nick of time that even for the Headbangers of S.East England, £200k for a t'urd that breaks down every five minutes might be pushing it, as shown by the £150k XE Project 8 and the £250k SV 2-door Range Rover - there's a limit to taking the mick out of morons.
Reason #4,134,689 why the £100-200k I-Pace with a boot, 'Game Changer II', 'Tesla-Destroyer', 'Porsche-Annihilator', 'Bestest thing Ever - along with Game-changer I', 'eXJ'/'Road Rover' was quietly pulled in 2017:
Well after 3 months of getting the total run around by JLR and the dealership they finally gave me my money back. This car was dangerous and I didn't sign up to be their test dummy. I was continually told that they could not find anything wrong with the car, therefore there was nothing wrong with it - even though it had tried to kill me twice and one of the managers at the dealership told my wife that he would not drive it.
Be careful my friends.
The Dept for Transport's DVSA and VCA wil be all over these cowboys, shutting down this out of control company, banning and withdrawing the dangerous to the public products it produces. And then I woke up, in Blighty, and realised the head of the company is a knight of the realm, an honorary 'Prof', and the state broadcaster does daily 24 hour promotions for it.
And they said the Soviet Union was f'ed up.
Shut it down, start again. Prosecute and jail Speth, his lieutenants, the colluding, conspiring head of VCA, the permanent sec. at the DfT, the ministers for transport and the secretary of state for transport, the senior Plod responsible for 'Jaguar Engine Heist', the criminal PR stunt, and the criminals at WMG/University of Warwick, who facilitated several billion pounds of UK taxpayer money ostensibly for research and development at JLR since 2008 going to Tata.
A joke's a joke, enough's enough.
We're already a laughing stock in politics. We don't need to be smashed again by jokers claiming game-changers and world cars of the year, which are garbage, dangerous garbage, to anyone with a pair of eyes and IQ bigger than their shoe size.
These creeps, Speth, the govt., civil servants, police, media, are trashing what's left of our reputation for being able to make things, and not be a corrupt, third world sh!thole, where it's everyone for themselves, and baksheesh is the only game in town.
F'em, as the Bullingdon boy would say. Shut the vermin down, and start again.
Mid-summer, sub-200 miles range, a car that wants to kill you:
Not so much a Porsche/Tesla-killer as a mug owner-killer.
What might some Norwegian Tesla car owners and some Norwegian Jaguar IPace owners have in common ?
Why might this man, pictured below, cause Jaguar to regret making claims about the IPace’s rapid charging ability and fail to answer an owners questions. ?
Christoffer A. Falkeid
A Norwegian iPace owner FENorway posted in the Jaguar Customer Relations forum and so far Jaguar have failed to respond.
This is what might happen if Jaguar ignore FENorway
Tell me I am wrong but my reading of published numbers of IPace registrations in the U.K. suggest that sales in the U.K. appear to have stalled.
We have two sets of statistics, one for this year January-June and another covering the period of the previous twelve months to March of this year.
In the set below we are told that in the period Jan - Jun 2019
1904 iPaces we’re registered.
In the next set we are told by the DVLA that in the previous 12 month period ending March 2019
1800 cars were registered.
This leads me to the conclusion that in the period March to June only 109 cars were registered
'stalled'? - they should be so lucky.
Originally Posted by pekem
I doubt 100 units are flogged legitimately per month in UK, and over 1,000 globally.
Officially, I-Pace 'sales' have stalled, plateaued at around 1,500/month globally - even short of the advertised ~25k production capacity at Magna.
The ipaceforums.co.uk guy, 'pcheaven'?, has his Frst Edition sat on eBay, and probably lots of other places, for £66k without a bite. Webuyanycar has it for £60k, and probably dropping a couple of hundred by the day.
Autotrader has over 200 I-Paces for sale. The lowest brand new one now is £55k.
US Autotrader has around 1,000, with over $10k off list price.
Norway's I-Pace sales have collapsed - far more trustworthy stats than UK's - JLR's self-reports and self-registers, plus over 100 dealers to dump cars into, and the colluding DVLA.
In Norway, the only true EV market, the I-Pace is running at less than half its June rate so far this month, registrations wise.
Its numbers are less than half of the T'urd's.
Its current rate is about 200-250/month in Norway.
I don't comment on the I-Pace any more really, as it's obvious it's gone. Waste of time and energy.
Who but JLR and the UK state and media would pour so much attention and effort into a car doing real 10,000 or fewer units a year?
The I-Pace is Jaguar XJ-S territory, but is presented and discussed as if it was a do-or-die, 200k+ units/yr MINI Metro.
It's over, dead.
one other point - wouldn't now have been a good time to start supplying those '20,000 I-Pace orders from Waymo'?
Originally Posted by pekem
Magna is running around half capacity, and yet the Waymo thing has gone completely quiet.
D'ya think it might have been fake? PR by JLR/Media? Nah, those fine upstanding men and women wouldn't do such a thing - lie, flat-out, to pump TM's share and bond prices, and save Tata.
Was soooooooooo obvious from one second after it was announced around a year ago.
It'll only get worse, too:
1. the EQC is starting volume deliveries - it's a decent car
2. the e-tron Sportback should launch at the IAA in September - lighter, better Cd, more direct comparable with the squashed roof I-Pace - and better range, faster, etc.
3. the 'S' or 'RS' version of the e-tron/e-tron Sportback should appear soon - possibly at the IAA too.
4. BMW's iX3 now isn't that far off - probably launching in Geneva, 2020, for deliveries very soon after. It'll be cheaper, lighter, just all round better, even though it's a 'legacy product'
Tata, if they have any sense left, would walk away now.
Got to go now, as gunshots - no kidding - are going off, loudly, and for the last 15 minutes or so, on the border of B'ham/Solihull, with the first sirens just arriving - the brave boys and gals in blue.
Point is, this is with B'ham/Solihull being on the crest of the wave - according to the scummy local and national pols, and media of course - with the flagship, stunningly successful JLR.
Shut that down, as BoJo the Bullingdon Boy will have to decide, and B'ham, 'true-blue' Solihull, the real 7/8 million West Midlands will be Detroit, Chicago and Philadelphia rolled into one, times 10.