Was it too early for the I-Pace ? - Page 181
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  1. #1801
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMVIrep View Post
    - that was the Turbo/Turbo S price?

    The base 4S - don't think officially released, on-sale yet, will, at least in the markets that matter - US, China, Germany, Norway, UK - will be similar money to a HSE, loaded options I-Pace, i.e., in UK money, around or just shy of £100k.
    I just quickly looked at the "From" prices of each car. Initially the Taycan is launched only as Turbo and Turbo S, so it must be the price for those. Strange names for an EV BTW. Later the cheaper versions of the Taycan will arrive. I'll wait for that. I don't need 2.8 sec 0-100 km/h acceleration. I do doubt, that the prices will come very close to the I-Pace prices though. The current versions of the Taycan are more than twice the price of an I-Pace. At least here in Denmark.

    But now the VW ID.3 has been launched this evening. I'll be seeing it in less than two weeks in Frankfurt. It looks like a great car. I'd be tempted to buy one just to see, what it's like to own an EV. Perhaps we could sell my wife's car after making sure, the ID.3 fulfills our every need car-wise.
    Kind regards
    Henrik Münster, Denmark
    MY2009 XF Premium Luxury 4.2 V8 petrol, lunar gray, dove leather.
    Previous: MY2012 XF Luxury 2.2 (190 ps) diesel, azurite blue, barley leather.

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  3. #1802
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    Porsche's electric cars at "Turbo" and "Turbo S".

    What will they cal the petrol 911s? 911 Electric and 911 Electric S.

    Porsche is losing the plot. Still can't match Tesla's acceleration of top speed from the oldest series production model in Tesla's line up, the Model S, even costing twice as much. Ouch.
    Hailing from: New England, USA
    Jaguar XF Ownership History: 2009 XF-SC(SV8), 2010 XFR, 2012 V8 Portfolio
    Looking For: Good Handling/Light Jaguar Sports Car and Off-Road Capable Land Rover

  4. #1803
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    So we know the answer to 2 questions:

    1. was it too early for the I-Pace? - yes, by about a century - see below

    2. why did Speth and co. bin the planned for launch in late 2018/early 2019 'eXJ'? - see below



    Never mind the I-Pace, the Taycan needs to duck and cover - although Porsche will trade on uber performance, rather than uber luxury and space.

    This, like the Taycan, is what billions, tens of billions and a culture of being the best engineers in the world gets you.

    For Speth, the Media, UK.gov, the Royals etc to launch the 'Bentley/Tesla killer' I-Pace with a boot 'eXJ', and shower it with I-Pace-Plus awards, rapturously received, orgasms etc BS, was a bridge too far for even these lunatic morons.
    Last edited by BMVIrep; 10-09-19 at 09:16.

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  6. #1804
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    Can't be bothered to check anymore, but still falling:

    Re: Resale value


    Post by DickiePhitt » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:29 pm

    Just to add a mischievous twist to this thread.

    I put the Reg No of my 5 month old I-Pace S in WeBuyAnyCar.com and it came back with £45k
    - couple of grand a month at least is the rate. And yet JLR still employs thousands of shills on the internet to push that the I-Pace is a success, is production-constrained, is 'stunning' etc, etc.

    It's the definition of a rudderless organisation, with the gimp at the top just crossing off the days on the calendar, and the PR crew of Hallett and his media mates making a mockery of what's left of a car company.

  7. #1805
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    But EVs are soo quiet - unless you buy The Car of the Century or 'The Disruptor':

    EQC did absolutely well in this test.
    The fact that I-pace and E-tron stopped much earlier can well be debated.
    Model X: 536km (20 ")
    EQC: 426km (20 ")
    E-Tron: 387km (21 ")
    I-pace: 364km (22 ")

    Adjusted for different sizes of rims, the EQC came about 20km longer than the E-tron / I-pace. So approx. 5% better reach on EQC

    Here is the result of noise test:
    DB (ROUNDED) AUDI E-TRON 55 (21 ") JAGUAR I-PACE (22") MB EQC 400 (20 ") TESLA MODEL X (20")
    60 km / h 55 67 61 67
    70 km / h 61 69 63 68
    80 km / h 63 71 65 70
    90 km / h 65 73 67 71
    100 km / h 67 75 69 73
    https://translate.google.com/transla...ic%3D43221.105
    https://elbilforum.no/index.php?topic=43221.105

    - up to 12 dB is huge! 4 times noisier at typical urban speeds, 35-40 mph, than the e-tron. Ridiculous.

    It's a tin can. The weight delta, of around 250 kg to the Germans, is due to JLR stripping out all sound insulation/deadening they could - a literal tin/aluminium can.

    Why do that, absolute craziness? Because their own testing showed an I-Pace with the required sound insulation/deadening of at least 150 kg would drive the already pitiful REAL range down to sub 150 miles effective.

    The I-Pace project was all about screaming at the top of their - JLR-Media-UK state - lungs '300 MILES RANGE'.

    They knew Tesla had the hold over 300 mile range, so they had to match it, nullify and neutralise this advantage, and then smash the Tesla - hence the 'Game-changer', Tesla-killer' nonsense - with the claim that it was inordinately better than a Tesla for driving dynamics - against the much bigger SUV Model X - and of course 'luxury' - the self-titled 'World's First Premium EV SUV'.

    And that's why the I-Pace is a rattly tin can joke, along with its one thousand and one other fundamental faults and problems - like an inability to brake - the 0.5 second or longer delay in going from regen, non-mechanical braking to mechanical braking, as evidenced now comprehensively by the non-UK statutory recall for a safety critical item, and Carwow's around 5m longer braking from 70 mph, against up to 800 kg lighter cars.

  8. #1806
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    Aha! So the '80 kWh' EQC - inferior to the '90 kWh I-Pace' - actually has a 90+ kWh battery - which some of us knew for months - it's 94 kWh - essentially the same pack that will go into the 2020 EQS - stated as '100 kWh':

    They drove on country roads and followed speed limits all the way.
    Don't know how interesting it is for everyone, but they also stated how many kWh they got charged on each car on Ionity after driving the cars from 100-0%.

    E-throne: 88,141 kWh
    I-Pace: 81,884 kWh
    EQC: 84,928 kWh
    Model-X: 104,791 kWh

    If you look at the added effect against the number of km driven you get this consumption:
    E-tron 228Wh / km
    I-Pace: 225Wh / km
    EQC: 199Wh / km
    Model X: 196Wh / km
    https://translate.google.com/transla...ic%3D43221.105
    https://elbilforum.no/index.php?topic=43221.105

    - so the I-Pace actually has the smallest battery. Is there anything 'Game-changing' about this thing?

  9. #1807
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    Product excellence Reality versus JLR Lies/Fraud&Media Brainwashing - what wins?:

    from 16:30:

    Deluded/Brainwashed Bloke: 'So, Clare, would you have one of these?'
    female:'If I could afford one, yes'
    Baffled Bloke: 'It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be... ...it's cheaper than the I-Pace'
    female: '...and nicer'
    Perplexed Bloke, battling his Media/Patriotic Brainwashing: 'you mean on the feel of the road?'
    female - just going by facts of her eyes, ears, and posterior: 'everything'
    Now half-brainwashed Bloke, computing reality: 'and it's very, very nice[the EQC]'



    -in Britain, as 'James' indicates, cars of this type - £40k-70k, SUVs/family cars - prams etc - are actually bought/decided by the women.

    UK 'Blokes', especially middle-class, southern England/Home Counties/Cotswolds-residing 'James' types, are uber patriotic and p!ss-easy programmable - media/state/BBC/royal etc brainwashing. Land Rover exists solely because of them.

    That's why JLR has turned back to 'rough' Land Rover Defender as its saviour, as women initially flock to fashion items like Evoques, wanting to be trendy and 'in', but then tire of dealing with male mono-syllabic morons in dealerships, for their 5+ annual dealer vists.

    The I-Pace failed partly because it was marketed subliminally as: 'male, thrusting, dynamic, 'driving (ribbed) pleasure' etc', when its actual majority customers/definers of purchases were women, who bemoaned its god-awful reilability, small boot for prams etc, and, as Clare says, above, actual not a nice car all-round - relatively noisy, unrefined, nasty quality controls, no cover for the stupid pano roof, etc.

    JLR only works with 'Blokes'. Either bald, Buy to Let Range Rover Sport owners, or Cotswold/Home Counties-set '4x4' owners, who revel in the middle to upper class hunting, fishing, shooting, royalty connection thing.

    Jaguar and I-Pace don't work. Jaguar is/was supposed to be about sports cars, and lithe sports saloons. An unrefined, overpriced, cramped interior neither fish nor fowl SUV/crossover saloon-coupe sits with none of these marque attributes, and hence why it's a monumental failure.

    JLR hasn't got the money to do a real E-type, or 911 competitor, and showing pictures of your coming 'Bentley/Merc/Tesla... killing 'eXJ'', which could be knocked up by a 10 year old in five minutes, doesn't cut it either, when Taycans, EQSs etc are real things.

    JLR is back to what it was in the early to mid 80s - Jaguar moribund/dead - with Ford falling for Egan's three card trick of sellling almost 20 year old XJs for $1:£1, and Land Rover a 2-product line: a 'rugged, rough 4x4', and a posh, twice the price Range Rover, with the same mechanicals and chassis.

    Ford and BMW saved a dead Jaguar and a dead-ended Land Rover, with the quantum leap L322 and Disco 3/RR Sport.

    Lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place.

  10. #1808
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    So Magna Steyr is in turmoil:

    'BMW-Zukunft offen: Bei Magna wackeln nun 700 Jobs'

    https://www.krone.at/1995102

    - no surprise at all, given the near 100% flop of the '25,000/year I-Pace', and not far behind in the flop stakes 'factory-order only' E-Pace.

    But, again unsurprisingly, the culprit being blamed is not JLR, but BMW - supposedly going to pull out the contract build of the 5-Series PHEV. The Z4 is too new to be a total collapse, and was only small production anyway.

    Okay, it's possible, given that BMW could easily do the 5-Series PHEV in house, especially given the latest PHEV update, and the need for loading of the main Dingolfing factory, given the collapse in sales of premium saloons pretty much everywhere, US, UK, Europe, with China perhaps the only stand-out.

    But, this stinks of BMW taking the fall for the collapse of Magna Steyr's production plan - around 50,000/yr down between the 25k/yr I-Pace - doing real under 10k - and the expected around 50k/yr E-Pace, doing now barely 20k/yr.

    For Magna to put out the real culprit, just as JLR/The Media is ramming the 'huge success' of the Defender down everyone's throat would be a mortal blow to JLR, collapsing the Tata Motors share price again, and scuppering the last tiny hope of finding a cretinous buyer for JLR, after the non-sale of PSA.

    BMW might have agreed to take the blame, as they can and will survive, and may be getting some backdoor deals with Magna for reduced contract cost for the remaining 5er PHEVs. It's no big deal in the round to BMW.

    Conversely, Tata could be bunging Magna cash to hide the real story.

    The bottom line is that the obvious turmoil at Graz is not caused by the minor 5-Series PHEV, but rather the cataclysmic flop of the two JLR cars, equally, given that E-Pace was supposed to be doing around double the I-Pace's hoped for/expected 25k/yr by now, not even 2 years after launch, when a 'new' model should be at its production and sales peak, as the sister drag car, the Evoque, was in late 2012 to late 2014.

  11. #1809
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    The other side of the story, as told by Jaguar

    The Magna Steyr in Graz-Thondorf has exceeded the production number of 100,000 Jaguar vehicles of the types E-Pace and I-Pace (picture above at the world premiere in Graz), as reported by the British manufacturer on Tuesday. The contract production started in September 2017 with the compact SUV E-Pace, followed by the I-Pace electric crossover in April 2018. The anniversary vehicle painted in "Corris Gray" goes to a US customer.
    https://www.en24.news/2019/08/magna-...s-in-graz.html

  12. #1810
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    Quote Originally Posted by pekem View Post
    The other side of the story, as told by Jaguar
    Magna already said in their 2019 Q1 financials that E-Pace production was down year on year. They said in 2019 Q2 ones that I-Pace was up yoy - obviously.

    What's happened this week is that Magna has used the BMW taking the 5-Series PHEV in-house as cover for the big fall in their production, caused by the E-Pace and I-Pace. G-Class is doing well, and so too is the Z4/Supra combo, due especially to the Supra in the US.

    BMW would have told Magna that the 5-Series PHEV was going in-house long ago, as it was off the planned latest, 3rd? gen., of their PHEV systems, and would be tied to the within months 'LCI', or facelift, for the current 'G30' 5-Series.

    BMW must have agreed with Magna to be 'fingered' for this bad news story, with undisclosed 'benefits' flowing the other way. Besides, BMW in Austria is pretty rock solid, with the huge Steyr engine plant and engine development centre.

 

 

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