Jaguar F Pace wins World Car of the Year - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    'World Car of the Year', but can it beat the XC60:


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  3. #22
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    There is not a single bad vehicle in that comparison test. They are all pretty close and all very good.

    The F-Pace is, by far, Jaguar's most competitive vehicle. And it is doing well. There is no sense trying to put it down.
    Hailing from: New England, USA
    Jaguar XF Ownership History: 2009 XF-SC(SV8), 2010 XFR, 2012 V8 Portfolio
    Looking For: Good Handling/Light Jaguar Sports Car and Off-Road Capable Land Rover

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron95 View Post
    There is not a single bad vehicle in that comparison test. They are all pretty close and all very good.

    The F-Pace is, by far, Jaguar's most competitive vehicle. And it is doing well. There is no sense trying to put it down.
    I must go and buy that magazine tonight. According to their website, they also test the Jaguar XJ, so there is more about Jaguar in it.
    Kind regards
    Henrik Münster, Denmark
    MY2009 XF Premium Luxury 4.2 V8 petrol, lunar gray, dove leather.
    Previous: MY2012 XF Luxury 2.2 (190 ps) diesel, azurite blue, barley leather.

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muenster View Post
    I must go and buy that magazine tonight. According to their website, they also test the Jaguar XJ, so there is more about Jaguar in it.
    Give us a summary if you can. I'm expecting:

    1. GLC
    2. Macan
    3. XC60
    4. F-Pace

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muenster View Post
    I must go and buy that magazine tonight.
    Knock yourself out, Muenster:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/dedeth...57685238740233

    I was almost right - GLC 1st, XC60/Macan swapped places, and F-Pace last.

    Of course the Macan was the most dynamic, but Auto Motor und Sport had to find a way to spare the F-Pace's blushes, by demoting the Macan for its high price, even though it has a six-cylinder engine, hence more power, and air suspension, compared to the 4-pot, standard suspension F-Pace.

    The takeaway from the AMuS test is that the Ingenium twin-turbo is underpowered, or overstated in its power by JLR, and it can neither compete with Porsche for sportiness, when Jaguar said the Macan was it benchmark, nor can it compete with the air-suspended Merc GLC for comfort, and the XC60, as I said it would, strikes a happy compromise, and will clean up in the sales charts, due also to its safety features and build quality.

  8. #26
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    Thank you for the summary. I haven't been able to get the magazine yet. I went to the rail station Wednesday, as I said, but the magazine didn't come out until Thursday 17th. I went there tonight as well, but they didn't have the new issue yet. Perhaps it comes out a little later in Denmark than in Germany. The pimpled teenager behind the counter didn't know anything. Not about this. Not about much else, I'm afraid.
    Kind regards
    Henrik Münster, Denmark
    MY2009 XF Premium Luxury 4.2 V8 petrol, lunar gray, dove leather.
    Previous: MY2012 XF Luxury 2.2 (190 ps) diesel, azurite blue, barley leather.

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muenster View Post
    Thank you for the summary.
    This was their comment on the F-Pace(25d AWD)'s suspension - which had the 1,520 euro adaptive dampers('Adaptive Dynamics Pack'), but not of course the air suspension of the 3 competitors:

    'appalling' - https://www.flickr.com/photos/dedeth...7685238740233/

    - stiff, loud, no harmony.

    And plagued by wind noise.

    The F-Pace has the same basic structure as the Disco 5, RR/RR Sport, and there have been complaints already on the Disco 5 about wind noise from the front door, by the top of the windscreen, which ties in with the opening door of the Disco 5 crash-tested by EuroNCAP.

    They also said the 2-litre bi-turbo diesel reacts as quickly to the accelerator pedal as the infotainment system - slowly. And that of course the infotainment system itself - probably ICTP - was a tad unpredictable.

    And last but not least, the Ingenium diesel, in its latest, presumably most developed form, has noticeable vibration, especially at low revs, and has a coarse sound.

    Oh, and even the perfect ZF auto is dragged down in the F-Pace installation.

    And it had wobbly finishers around the instrument binnacle.

    Maybe this was just a one-off car, a Friday special, or maybe the World Car of the Year is a joke.

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMVIrep View Post
    This was their comment on the F-Pace(25d AWD)'s suspension - which had the 1,520 euro adaptive dampers('Adaptive Dynamics Pack'), but not of course the air suspension of the 3 competitors:

    'appalling' - https://www.flickr.com/photos/dedeth...7685238740233/

    - stiff, loud, no harmony.

    And plagued by wind noise.

    The F-Pace has the same basic structure as the Disco 5, RR/RR Sport, and there have been complaints already on the Disco 5 about wind noise from the front door, by the top of the windscreen, which ties in with the opening door of the Disco 5 crash-tested by EuroNCAP.

    They also said the 2-litre bi-turbo diesel reacts as quickly to the accelerator pedal as the infotainment system - slowly. And that of course the infotainment system itself - probably ICTP - was a tad unpredictable.

    And last but not least, the Ingenium diesel, in its latest, presumably most developed form, has noticeable vibration, especially at low revs, and has a coarse sound.

    Oh, and even the perfect ZF auto is dragged down in the F-Pace installation.

    And it had wobbly finishers around the instrument binnacle.

    Maybe this was just a one-off car, a Friday special, or maybe the World Car of the Year is a joke.
    Thank you for the summary. I'll try to buy the magazine tomorrow after my 24 hours shift. From the page you link to is seems, the F-Pace is actually no. 3 in front of Macan, which comes in as no. 4 and last. All great until you notice, that it is because, the F-Pace scores quite well on "economy". Without that category, it comes in last. And even though economy shouldn't be ignored, perhaps that is not exactly the category, where we want our beloved Jaguar brand to excel.
    Kind regards
    Henrik Münster, Denmark
    MY2009 XF Premium Luxury 4.2 V8 petrol, lunar gray, dove leather.
    Previous: MY2012 XF Luxury 2.2 (190 ps) diesel, azurite blue, barley leather.

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMVIrep View Post
    I was almost right - GLC 1st, XC60/Macan swapped places, and F-Pace last.
    No, you were not and this order is incorrect.

    The F-Pace, a fine SUV, beat the Porsche Macan by 3 points and finished 3rd, while the Macan finished 4th.

    That is right, a German Automotive Magazine, thinks the F-Pace is better than the Macan.


    Of course, none of this matters much, all 4 vehicles are very good, and consumers are lucky to have those choices. Just remember that not long ago this entire category (European Mid-size Premium CUVs) didn't exist. Now there are great choices. That is a US-inspired win for consumers.
    Hailing from: New England, USA
    Jaguar XF Ownership History: 2009 XF-SC(SV8), 2010 XFR, 2012 V8 Portfolio
    Looking For: Good Handling/Light Jaguar Sports Car and Off-Road Capable Land Rover

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baron95 View Post
    No, you were not and this order is incorrect.

    The F-Pace, a fine SUV, beat the Porsche Macan by 3 points and finished 3rd, while the Macan finished 4th.
    No. As I said, the F-Pace was last by "Eigenschaftswertung", that is the actual assessment of the car, witout regard to purchase price, cost of running and so on:

    1. GLC - 360 points 2. XC60 - 355 points 3. Macan - 343 points 4. F-Pace - 329 points.

    I'm sorry, but you really must stop twisting the truth, and covering up for this product especially. It came last, that's it.

    The reason it came 3rd, was as I said, AMuS bumped it up by the expedient of pinging the Macan by 10 points or so on price, when even they admitted in the article text that the F-Pace is nearly the same price as the (V6 and air-suspended) Macan - €60,360 v €61,143 - and on the other hand giving it just a 1 point advantage for its resale value, when the Macan is famous for having the highest resale value of any mass-produced car(~100k units/yr) worldwide. In other words, AMuS had to contrive a way to spare the F-Pace's blushes, as the car itself is woeful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron95 View Post
    That is right, a German Automotive Magazine, thinks the F-Pace is better than the Macan.
    - no, as explained above, by "Eigenschaftswertung" it came last. Why is this hard to understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron95 View Post
    Of course, none of this matters much, all 4 vehicles are very good
    -no, you're twisting the truth again, with the AMuS test clearly showing there were 3 good cars, with the Macan outstanding, as a dynamic SUV, and the GLC and XC60 similarly all-rounded, but the GLC better because of its V6, and comfort from the excellent air suspension.

    The F-Pace was awful in every respect - comfort, performance, infotainment, build quality, price, and if you go by the ADAC, who actually measures boot space, the F-Pace is only average, not the lie of cavernous 650 litres from JLR.

    The reason the F-Pace did not stand out weight-wise, given that it's just a shrunken Range Rover Sport platform without air suspension, is that the GLC and Macan had V6s and air suspension, and the XC60 air suspension, and I'll bet the F-Pace had no ~75kg pano roof, which means like-for-like, the F-Pace is around 200kg heavier than the competition.

    And let's not also forget that the Macan, which got pinged by AMuS for less connectivity and safety aids, is imminent for a facelift, which will rectify this, meaning the F-Pace has no advantage there either.

    Finally, to address Muenster's point about the fuel economy of the F-Pace in the test, the reason for that is the twin-turbo Ingenium diesel is not producing 240PS or 500Nm torque, as shown by 0-100km/h in 8.6s. JLR have had to turn down the wick on this engine because it vibrates, horrendously, caused by too light an engine block - common diesel/petrol - in the pursuit of trying to mitigate their overweight old platforms.

    The engine is producing 200-210PS, which means a customer would be paying upwards of €60,000 for a car competing with V6 diesels producing 250-260PS conservatively, and at least 100 lb.ft more.

    Quite a scandal, which the motoring press and UK trading standards officers under the Sale of Goods Act should be investigating.
    Last edited by BMVIrep; 19-08-17 at 07:52.

 

 

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