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Hi,
To any techies at Spires out there. Can you tell me if the 240 BHP 3.00 litre in the XF is the same engine as the 280 BHP but just with the ECU reprogrammed, or have they done more to the cams, pistons etc. If not is it possible to chip a 240 up to a 280?
Cheers
 

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99% sure the engines are identical and the difference is just a re-map. We're currently looking for a 3.0D and S to simply plug into and look at the two maps to confirm this, we can then develop a map that turns a normal 3.0D into an S and another map that squeezes more power out of both.

We we're swapping our XF 2.7D for a 3.0D but our plans changed and we've got an XKR instead...
 

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SpiresST said:
99% sure the engines are identical and the difference is just a re-map. We're currently looking for a 3.0D and S to simply plug into and look at the two maps to confirm this, we can then develop a map that turns a normal 3.0D into an S and another map that squeezes more power out of both.

We we're swapping our XF 2.7D for a 3.0D but our plans changed and we've got an XKR instead...
I'm curious as to how much power can indeed be squeezed out of an XF3.0dS from solely a remap and what roughly do you reckon will be the price?

Also how will this affect leaving the car into the dealers for work relating to the engine (i.e. service, etc) and how will this affect the warranty?
 

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I would be surprised if the difference is just a remap between the D and the S. Though I am fairly sure a remap will be part of it, but would not be surprised to see different pistons and or strokes to achieve slightly increased compression ratios too.

It may be that the level of boost is also altered by way of differing pitch on the turbo vanes.

If a workshop manula were available for each car it may be possible to find out by looking at piston and other part numbers.
 

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chesterfield said:
If a workshop manula were available for each car it may be possible to find out by looking at piston and other part numbers.
That's what we've done, trawling though the Jaguar parts system the two engines are exactly the same. If you think about it it makes no financial sense to have 2 different versions of an engine with lots of internal differences, the cost of development and production would be too much.
 

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footie said:
SpiresST said:
99% sure the engines are identical and the difference is just a re-map. We're currently looking for a 3.0D and S to simply plug into and look at the two maps to confirm this, we can then develop a map that turns a normal 3.0D into an S and another map that squeezes more power out of both.

We we're swapping our XF 2.7D for a 3.0D but our plans changed and we've got an XKR instead...
I'm curious as to how much power can indeed be squeezed out of an XF3.0dS from solely a remap and what roughly do you reckon will be the price?

Also how will this affect leaving the car into the dealers for work relating to the engine (i.e. service, etc) and how will this affect the warranty?
When we do a map the price will be the same as the 2.7D version, so £850 plus VAT but then with 10% discount on the forum.

As for warranty it's the same conversation, if Jaguar can prove the map has been responsible for a failure then the warranty would be invalidated.
 

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SpiresST said:
When we do a map the price will be the same as the 2.7D version, so £850 plus VAT but then with 10% discount on the forum.

As for warranty it's the same conversation, if Jaguar can prove the map has been responsible for a failure then the warranty would be invalidated.
I liked the sound of everything up to this point highlighted in red. MTM and some other tuners seem to stand over possible warranty claim, surely that would not only boost sales but also show that you as a company are confident in your product.

Everything I have heard about your products gives the impression of very well engineered and developed, not altering the character of the cars but improving character and making them even more old school Jaguar than the car they are today.
 

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footie said:
SpiresST said:
When we do a map the price will be the same as the 2.7D version, so £850 plus VAT but then with 10% discount on the forum.

As for warranty it's the same conversation, if Jaguar can prove the map has been responsible for a failure then the warranty would be invalidated.
I liked the sound of everything up to this point highlighted in red. MTM and some other tuners seem to stand over possible warranty claim, surely that would not only boost sales but also show that you as a company are confident in your product.

Everything I have heard about your products gives the impression of very well engineered and developed, not altering the character of the cars but improving character and making them even more old school Jaguar than the car they are today.
Sorry, holiday and busy with XKR-S (see other post).

Reading MTM's website they seem to be offering an additional warranty that is not the same as the manufacturers original warranty, and it will be something you need to pay for with some associated terms and conditions.

The only companies that have full manufacturers warranty are those approved through dealers, such as Schnitzer for BMW and Mountune for Ford. Also, all they are doing is buying the warranty for a great deal of money and making the map more expensive as a result.

We can't do this as a small company so can only explain the quality of the work and be honest about the risks involved.
 

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What's the difference between a "tune in a box" @ £85 and your proposed remap @ £850?
TIA
JohnT

Edit: oops sorry if I had read the following thread first I would not have asked such a daft question!
 

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JohnT said:
What's the difference between a "tune in a box" @ £85 and your proposed remap @ £850?
TIA
JohnT

Edit: oops sorry if I had read the following thread first I would not have asked such a daft question!
Hi John, I'll put in this response from the 2.7D thread plus some other bits in case it's not been seen by others.

The £85 tuning box will plug into the diagnostic port and come with lots of claims of power, fuel ecomony etc etc. It is very very simple, however, as all it does is chuck more fuel in the engine.

A diesel engine is different to a petrol in that it passes air and unburnt fuel through the engine, you'll see the unburnt fuel as black smoke (guess we've all seen that when a diesel accelerates?). The tuning boxes take advantage of this and common rail technology by upping the fuel rail pressure so more fuel goes into the engine. The cheap £85 tuning box will just add an offset so will better for low revs or high revs (but never both). More expensive boxes alter this change in fuel pressure with revs to make it more consistent. By increasing the fueling at low revs you do get an improvement in throttle response and pick up so you will experience real gains but not much at the top end.

The way they work is to interupt the pressure return signal to the ECU so that it thinks the fuel rail pressure is less than it should be so increases it. What this does is 'fool' the ECU which also knocks out all the other systems that rely on accurate information. This means the mpg figure will read much better than it actually is (actual mpg is probably worse) and also the torque signal is incorrect meaning the auto box shift point and quality will be affected and the DSC won't function properly when needed. As well as this the car will chuck out much more smoke except you won't see it on a stage 5 emissions cars (such as the XF) as the DPF will capture it all (it will need to regen a lot more and if this isn't succesful you'll get a lot of warnings).

So on a modern car like the XF I would never fit one of these things as systems rely on each other too much and you'll have potential DPF problems coupled with worse economy.

A proper map on the other hand (now where might one of those be available...?) will increase boost and fuel pressure together when needed as well as the turbo sequencing and fuel injector duration. All of this is also not 'fooling' the ECU so other systems on the car continue to function properly and the DPF stays happy. It also means you can lean the fueling when cruising for genuine increase in fuel economy.

Hope that helps.
 

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So is your "change of plans" i.e the XFR instead of the 3.0DS, going to alter your claims of having a remap for the S model available in December ?
 

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Barkster said:
So is your "change of plans" i.e the XFR instead of the 3.0DS, going to alter your claims of having a remap for the S model available in December ?
We're not doing work on an XFR at the moment, see the XKR-S thread.

Also plans for December haven't changed. It's totally reliant on 3.0D owners, so if you want to be the first then we can doing something as soon as anyone is ready.
 

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I would have thought the non S has only 1 turbo and the S has two?

Very much doubt Jag would run the same engine in too states of tune.

There is a 70hp and 90hp 1.3 Diesel Fiat Panda, the 90hp has a variable vane turbo to make the extra 20hp.

Liam
 

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XF-Hopeful said:
I would have thought the non S has only 1 turbo and the S has two?

Very much doubt Jag would run the same engine in too states of tune.

There is a 70hp and 90hp 1.3 Diesel Fiat Panda, the 90hp has a variable vane turbo to make the extra 20hp.

Liam
I can think of numerous cars running two states of tune from the same engine. I would have thought it was more uncommon to change the turbos, especially in diesels.
 

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Ill be surprised if it is just a state of tune. To result in the same emissions figures from the same engine with a tune and same capacity.

My guess ill be slightly different pistons with different compression ratios, and possibly changed vanes on the turbos and or inlet manifold along with a software tune.
 

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Guys, the engines are the same. There is no difference, at all. The investment costs involved with different hardware would be huge, far bigger than the numbers the XF is sold in could justify.

Different software tunes of the same engine is now common place, VW/Audi/Seat have numerous versions of the same engine, Ford do it with the 1.6, Fiat do it etc etc.
 

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SpiresST said:
Barkster said:
So is your "change of plans" i.e the XFR instead of the 3.0DS, going to alter your claims of having a remap for the S model available in December ?
We're not doing work on an XFR at the moment, see the XKR-S thread.

Also plans for December haven't changed. It's totally reliant on 3.0D owners, so if you want to be the first then we can doing something as soon as anyone is ready.
I would be delighted to be first - I'm just missing one thing.......... :cry:
 

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I don't mean to be offensive or enter into a full blown arguement but I'd love to see some example of same enginer AND ancilleries being used in 2 states of tune.

Liam
 
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