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Hi Spires,

When do you think that you will be ready with a remap for the XF 3,0 D S?

Furthermore what numbers do you expect to achieve, and what will happen to the warranty?
 

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Sofus said:
Hi Spires,

When do you think that you will be ready with a remap for the XF 3,0 D S?

Furthermore what numbers do you expect to achieve, and what will happen to the warranty?
Hi Sofus, the map will be ready in December, power wise we don't know what's possible but our target is for 320 bhp.

Warranty could be affected as is the case for the 2.7D map.
 

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I am a little confused by the talk of remaps, possibly it's my simple nature :lol:

If it is possible to improve the performance of the vehicle by such a degree with just a remap of the ECU, why does Jaguar not do it themselves in the factory? Surely it would make a sportier version that they could charge even more for? Is it because the gear train and running gear cannot withstand that level of torque without itself being revamped or that the fuel economy and CO2 emissions would be so adversely affected and not be allowed or viewed dimly in this day and age?
 

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David said:
I am a little confused by the talk of remaps, possibly it's my simple nature :lol:

If it is possible to improve the performance of the vehicle by such a degree with just a remap of the ECU, why does Jaguar not do it themselves in the factory? Surely it would make a sportier version that they could charge even more for? Is it because the gear train and running gear cannot withstand that level of torque without itself being revamped or that the fuel economy and CO2 emissions would be so adversely affected and not be allowed or viewed dimly in this day and age?
A good question that deserves an honest answer.

Some tuners might tell you that they've done a better job than the original manufacturer, but this just isn't true.

The engine performance of a modern diesel is governed mainly by simple things: 1. how efficient the combustion is, 2. how efficiently it can move fuel/air in and out of the cylinders and 3. what operating conditions and limits are set. For an electronic re-map the first two things don't change meaning you can only change the third. This is also the reason the new 3.0 engine is better than the 2.7 (apart from the bigger capacity), i.e. Jaguar have changed all three.

So within the third element is where the engine can be tuned. What the manufacturers consider here is emissions (this is CO2 but actually smoke is just as important) and also internal pressures and temperatures. Jaguar will have engineered the engine to deliver a certain power output but under very rigorous operating conditions, i.e. a fully laden car towing maximum capacity up a steep hill in 45 deg ambient for hours on end etc. etc., or sustained running at maximum speed for hours on end, this type of event. It means that nearly all customers won’t get anywhere near the operating limits of the engine. Their other consideration is smoke, even more so with stage 5 emissions DPF. It’s actually very easy to put more fuel in a common rail diesel and get more torque but the increase in smoke would kill the DPF very quickly.

So simple physics says that if an engine has been tuned to produce more power, and its efficiency hasn’t been changed with any internals mods etc. then it must be operating to a new set of conditions and limits. This is where the quality of maps can vary as some might just up the fuel pressure which gives a great deal more smoke (like a tuning box) and others can be carefully developed to ensure that fuel/boost and timing are all carefully controlled to keep the engine as efficient as possible. Here you’ll get an increase in power but also keep smoke under control ensuring the life of the DPF.
 

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Thanks for explaining all of that, it was both interesting and enlightening. It does explain a lot why I steer clear of local back street tuner who promise the earth.

I'm curious as to how much power and torque the other parts will happily cope with, i.e. clutch, gearbox, etc. The reason I ask is that my storeman who we supplied a VW Caddy TDi went and chipped it to supposably 150hp from it's stock 105hp, frankly I thought the guy was blowing smoke up his ass with those figures but anyway to cut a long story short the van blew the clutch a few months later.

In your opinion will the XF 3.0dS have no such problems?
 

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I hope you are making your storeman pay for the the clutch replacement or I would be blowing more than smoke up his ass :mrgreen:
 

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Neillbro said:
I hope you are making your storeman pay for the the clutch replacement or I would be blowing more than smoke up his ass :mrgreen:
Unfortunately he did ask my brother (partner in our business) if he was allowed nd he granted it. An expensive lesson at £650 replacement from a local non-VW dealers, heaven knows what they would have charged. Needless to say the car is back to stock though the storeman was out pocket to the tune of £250 for the upgrade.

It's maybe why I want more assurance from the likes of Spires as to whether these parts are fully up to the job.
 

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Spires - thx for that info....makes perfect sense to me about Jaguar covering themselves and designing the vehicle for operating at max tolerance without coming apart at the seams; and you taking up some of that tolerance with a remap.
 

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footie said:
Thanks for explaining all of that, it was both interesting and enlightening. It does explain a lot why I steer clear of local back street tuner who promise the earth.

I'm curious as to how much power and torque the other parts will happily cope with, i.e. clutch, gearbox, etc. The reason I ask is that my storeman who we supplied a VW Caddy TDi went and chipped it to supposably 150hp from it's stock 105hp, frankly I thought the guy was blowing smoke up his ass with those figures but anyway to cut a long story short the van blew the clutch a few months later.

In your opinion will the XF 3.0dS have no such problems?
Yes the drivetrain has to be a consideration and this is where you can look at other models. All XF's have the same gearbox and prop, including the R, the diff and driveshafts are different but have the same capacity. In all of this the gearbox is the limiting factor.

So, if you look at the R it has a torque cap in first and second gear of 625Nm. Given that the 3.0D already has 600Nm of torque it's likely that any map will push this figure above 625Nm which this means that we'll need to have the same cap within the electronics of any re-map.

So in short quality can vary, the tuner needs to be sensible. There are plenty of poeple who are only interested in headline grabbing figures but quite frankly driveability in the real world and longevity are more important.
 

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David said:
Spires - thx for that info....makes perfect sense to me about Jaguar covering themselves and designing the vehicle for operating at max tolerance without coming apart at the seams; and you taking up some of that tolerance with a remap.
And this takes us full circle to the question of warranty. The manufacturer is not going to uphold their unlimited warranty if the operating limits have been changed. So two things can happen here, 1. they don't know the car's been re-mapped, 2. the tuner has done a sensible job and limited the risk (and hopefully both at the same time).

But it is never without risk and that's something we're open and honest about. If there is an offer of warranty then very carefully check the terms and conditions. If it is a manufacturer approved map and includes warranty then it's going to be more expensive as the tuner is effectively buying the added risk from the manufacturer.
 

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SpiresST said:
Yes the drivetrain has to be a consideration and this is where you can look at other models. All XF's have the same gearbox and prop, including the R, the diff and driveshafts are different but have the same capacity. In all of this the gearbox is the limiting factor.

So, if you look at the R it has a torque cap in first and second gear of 625Nm. Given that the 3.0D already has 600Nm of torque it's likely that any map will push this figure above 625Nm which this means that we'll need to have the same cap within the electronics of any re-map.

So in short quality can vary, the tuner needs to be sensible. There are plenty of poeple who are only interested in headline grabbing figures but quite frankly driveability in the real world and longevity are more important.
Thanks for this frank and honest reply, you have answer my biggest fear and if appear that you are more responsible than most and I reckon I could be go for an upgrade in a year's time.

Have you any plans for gearbox software upgrade or are you happy with the finished product as is?
 

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SpiresST said:
footie said:
Have you any plans for gearbox software upgrade or are you happy with the finished product as is?
No plans here, quite frankly there is not any improvement to be made over the standard gearbox tune which is the best there is.
I thought as much but still had to ask. ;)
 

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64k $ question: will Jaguar technicians be able to detect your remap ?

I had a Revo remap on my Audi and it is apparently undetectable, unless you have the Revo software (and are looking for it).

My Audi dealer has never spotted it when it has been in for servicing, but as I am p/x'ing it for my Jag I will have it taken off before I hand it in.

If it is undetectable, I will be knocking down your door in early Dec to get mine remapped ! Are you going to price it sensibly ? Or will there be a forum discount ?
 

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Barkster said:
64k $ question: will Jaguar technicians be able to detect your remap ?

I had a Revo remap on my Audi and it is apparently undetectable, unless you have the Revo software (and are looking for it).

My Audi has never spotted it when it has been in for servicing, but as I am p/x'ing it for my Jag I will have it taken off before I hand it in.

If it is undetectable, I will be knocking down your door in early Dec to get mine remapped ! Are you going to price it sensibly ? Or will there be a forum discount ?
Well saying that something is undetectable is a brave statement, and we'd not be as bold as that. If a dealer suspects something then they can call in the technical department to measure the engine parameters for certain driving conditions.

But for a normal service or other work then no, they wouldn't know.

Pricing will be the same as our 2.7D map, have a look at the thread for that.
 

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So is there a single price for 320 hp whether the starting point is an S or non S model?

Going from non S to 320 hp with a remap would suit me as I can't see where the value is of £3,000 for the OEM remap and larger wheels on an S model.
 

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Butty said:
So is there a single price for 320 hp whether the starting point is an S or non S model?

Going from non S to 320 hp with a remap would suit me as I can't see where the value is of £3,000 for the OEM remap and larger wheels on an S model.
Sorry not replied earlier, manic busy recently.

Single price is planned for both. But these are all planned, development hasn't started yet. If you are deciding what car to buy then don't rely on us delivering a tune as there are many possible complications that hopefully won't, but could, happen during development.
 
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