Does this look like success? - Page 11
Welcome to the Jaguar XF Forum.
Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 910111213 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 129
  1. #101
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,052
    from the horse's mouth:

    Jaguar Land Rover in particular has been far too slow to get into the burgeoning EV market"

    - what JLR promoter Prof David Bailey really means is JLR has an incredible 0 PHEVs after 9 years of public funding and innumerable press releases, and products like the below new 5-Series plug-in hybrid will destroy further not just sales rep specials XF 20ds, but also the money-spinner XF Ss:

    'Should I buy one?

    This hybrid 5 Series is a far better proposition than the previous offering. It’s reasonably priced, functions fusslessly, saves money in both energy and tax terms and provides the same polished array of qualities as the more conventional versions of the latest, excellent, 5 Series. Expect to see many more hybrid 5 Series than previously, especially given the pressure on diesel models.'

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...se-2017-review

    Cheaper than a V6 diesel XF S by £5.5k, BiK 9% versus 30%, as fast:

    BMW 530e iPerformance SE Price: £44,765 Engine: four cylinder, 1998cc, turbocharged, petrol; with electric motor assist Power: 249bhp at 5000-6000rpm Torque: 310lb ft at 1350-4250rpm petrol engine Gearbox: eight-speed automatic Kerbweight: 1770kg 0-62mph: 6.2sec Top speed: 146mph Economy: 141.2mpg Co2: 46g/km, 9%

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Jaguar XF Forum
    Advertisements
     

  3. #102
    Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20,187
    Quote Originally Posted by BMVIrep View Post
    from the horse's mouth:

    Jaguar Land Rover in particular has been far too slow to get into the burgeoning EV market"

    - what JLR promoter Prof David Bailey really means is JLR has an incredible 0 PHEVs after 9 years of public funding and innumerable press releases, and products like the below new 5-Series plug-in hybrid will destroy further not just sales rep specials XF 20ds, but also the money-spinner XF Ss:

    'Should I buy one?

    This hybrid 5 Series is a far better proposition than the previous offering. It’s reasonably priced, functions fusslessly, saves money in both energy and tax terms and provides the same polished array of qualities as the more conventional versions of the latest, excellent, 5 Series. Expect to see many more hybrid 5 Series than previously, especially given the pressure on diesel models.'

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...se-2017-review

    Cheaper than a V6 diesel XF S by £5.5k, BiK 9% versus 30%, as fast:

    BMW 530e iPerformance SE Price: £44,765 Engine: four cylinder, 1998cc, turbocharged, petrol; with electric motor assist Power: 249bhp at 5000-6000rpm Torque: 310lb ft at 1350-4250rpm petrol engine Gearbox: eight-speed automatic Kerbweight: 1770kg 0-62mph: 6.2sec Top speed: 146mph Economy: 141.2mpg Co2: 46g/km, 9%
    It is also the case that the XE will be under pressure from the BMW 3 Series plugin Hybrid.
    And it was the XE that was said at the outset to be the car to take on the German competition.





  4. #103
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,052
    Quote Originally Posted by pekem View Post
    XE... ...car to take on the German competition.
    I'm sure Jaguar has an app for that.

    After all, Jaguar is now a self-proclaimed virtual reality brand, or did I misread 'Jaguar is really virtually a brand'?

    As to the risible 'Gorillaz', did some intern at Gaydon take JLR PR supremo Chas Hallet's demand for new ideas for JLR's notorious guerilla marketing too literally?

  5. Remove Advertisements
    Jaguar XF Forum
    Advertisements
     

  6. #104
    Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20,187
    Quote Originally Posted by BMVIrep View Post
    from the horse's mouth:

    “Jaguar Land Rover in particular has been far too slow to get into the burgeoning EV market"

    - what JLR promoter Prof David Bailey really means is JLR has an incredible 0 PHEVs after 9 years of public funding and innumerable press releases, and products like the below new 5-Series plug-in hybrid will destroy further not just sales rep specials XF 20ds, but also the money-spinner XF Ss:

    'Should I buy one?

    This hybrid 5 Series is a far better proposition than the previous offering. It’s reasonably priced, functions fusslessly, saves money in both energy and tax terms and provides the same polished array of qualities as the more conventional versions of the latest, excellent, 5 Series. Expect to see many more hybrid 5 Series than previously, especially given the pressure on diesel models.'

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...se-2017-review

    Cheaper than a V6 diesel XF S by £5.5k, BiK 9% versus 30%, as fast:

    BMW 530e iPerformance SE Price: £44,765 Engine: four cylinder, 1998cc, turbocharged, petrol; with electric motor assist Power: 249bhp at 5000-6000rpm Torque: 310lb ft at 1350-4250rpm petrol engine Gearbox: eight-speed automatic Kerbweight: 1770kg 0-62mph: 6.2sec Top speed: 146mph Economy: 141.2mpg Co2: 46g/km, 9%
    Interesting to note that the BMW's Hybrid 5 will be built in the same factory as the I-Pace !


    CET SAN FRANCISCO

    Magna International's Magna Steyr unit said on Monday that it will build BMW's new 5-series plug-in hybrid.


    The BMW 530e model will be manufactured beginning this summer at Magna Steyr's plant in Graz, Austria, where the contract manufacturer already plans to produce Jaguar's I-Pace electric SUV starting early next year.


    Magna International, North America's largest automotive supplier and the third globally, is alone among the top auto suppliers to perform contract manufacturing for carmakers. Its Austrian plant can produce about 200,000 cars per year.

    Magna is currently building a new paint shop in Slovenia due to increased demand.


    A Magna spokeswoman would not comment on a statement by the Slovenian government in March that the auto supplier would potentially invest up to 1.24 billion euros in the country, including a car plant with capacity of 100,000 to 200,000 vehicles per year.


    Global automakers and their suppliers are investing heavily in fully-electric and gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles.

    Consumer demand is still low versus that for standard vehicles, but companies are beginning to offer more choices to respond to government mandates for greater sales of vehicles that emit little or no carbon dioxide, and prepare for a future experts believe will be dominated by greener vehicles.




    Contact Automotive News

    Can't help thinking that there is more to learn about Jaguar's plans for the future if it is the case that diesel sales are falling away.





  7. #105
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,052
    Quote Originally Posted by pekem View Post
    Interesting to note that the BMW's Hybrid 5 will be built in the same factory as the I-Pace !

    Can't help thinking that there is more to learn about Jaguar's plans for the future if it is the case that diesel sales are falling away.
    There's no 'if' in the falling diesel sales. JLR promoter Prof Bailey has as good as confirmed it - the pain JLR is suffering for their non-PHEV, non-EV etc..

    It's also been confirmed by the pre- pre-launch of the Ingenium petrol back in September last year, and now the electric I-Pace mysteriously having gone from 'launch in 2018' to 'it's already in production, and launching this year', in the space of a few months:

    http://autoweek.com/article/green-ca...#ixzz4kUMSdCtA

    The same hype by JLR and the media, self-defeatingly betraying their desperation, is also in play for the I-Pace - 'a (Tesla) Model X killer' - like the XE was a '(BMW)3-Series killer', the XF II 'a 5-Series killer', and the F-Pace 'a (Porsche) Macan killer'.

    Pulling the I-Pace forward, by so much, tells us as clearly as a press release from JLR themselves on how much their sales have fallen in the last 6 months would.

    The marketing 'brains' at JLR don't seem to have realised this.

  8. #106
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,052
    Quote Originally Posted by pekem View Post
    Interesting to note that the BMW's Hybrid 5 will be built in the same factory as the I-Pace !
    Magna building the 5-Series PHEV is a bit odd to me. Of course they don't build it as such, with the car body made in Dingolfing.

    Seems to me like a logistical hodge-podge, and hard to see where the cost saving is for BMW, compared to say the 3-Series PHEV being made all in-house at Regensburg.(edit: Munich plant, not Regensburg)

    I can only think BMW are using Magna in this case as 'overflow', not for their unique expertise, as the new 5-Series is in high demand, and they simply haven't the production capacity, and disturbance to production flow, for the extra battery installation etc., in the main production site at Dingolfing.

    Yep, it's a production constraint, not a tech deficiency at BMW, driving the Magna deal for the 5-Series PHEV:

    '“The high level of flexibility within our global production network and reliable cooperation with our partner, Magna Steyr, will enable us to respond swiftly to the strong customer demand we anticipate for the world’s most successful business limousine,” adds Zipse.

    The BMW 5 Series has been the market leader in the premium upper-class segment for many years, with more than 347,000 units sold in 2015.

    Integration of new BMW 3 Series and 4 Series models means that production volumes at the BMW Group plant in Dingolfing have risen significantly. As a result, the site now produces around 350,000 vehicles per year. “The decision to build 3 Series and 4 Series variants here proves that we are competitive and makes us less dependent on the lifecycle of our large model series,” explains Dingolfing Plant Manager Josef Kerscher. However, as a consequence of this successful growth, the plant can no longer accommodate the expected volumes alone. Nevertheless, the bulk of the BMW 5 Series models will still be produced in Dingolfing.'

    https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...es?language=en
    Last edited by BMVIrep; 20-06-17 at 08:30.

  9. #107
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,052
    Quote Originally Posted by pekem View Post
    Can't help thinking that there is more to learn about Jaguar's plans for the future if it is the case that diesel sales are falling away.
    It's not just collapsing diesel sales for Jaguar/JLR that is driving their panicked rush into EV, with '5,000 engineers', the most acute immediate reason is this:

    'China upheld strict sales quotas for electrically powered vehicles in a draft regulation issued on Tuesday, ignoring concessions agreed between Chinese Premier Li Keqiang and German Chancellor Angela Merkel earlier this month.

    The draft, posted on the website of the Legislative Affairs Office for China's cabinet, maintains that automakers must sell enough electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles to generate "credits" equivalent to 8 percent of sales by 2018, 10 percent by 2019 and 12 percent by 2020 - criteria many in the industry deem too ambitious.'

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1941V5

    The industry thought Merkel had an agreement with the Chinese PM to push back the quota and penalties till 2020, but now in the last few days, the original 2018 plan is back on, giving the likes of Jaguar/JLR just 6 months to get a qualifying product(s) onto the market, as they currently have zero, hence the out of the blue massive pull forward of I-Pace, with Magna announcing yesterday production had already started.

    Even with the I-Pace available, it's too little, too late, for the China market, when they should have had a range of PHEVs, like the Germans.

    The Germans are objecting fiercely really because PHEVs and EVs currently cost them money, with the 'new gen', based on new architectures, cheaper batteries due to larger contracts with LG, Panasonic and so on, from 2019/2020, getting them nearer to breaking even. They have the capacity, but the ~10% all production would lose them billions at the moment.

  10. #108
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,052
    The denouement of the benighted/'stunning success' 2008-2017 Tata era?:

    http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...uar-land-rover

    Tata's dash for cash before the crash gets public.

    This would help to explain the woeful Gorillaz nonsense, and the patent lie on Sunday by the media of '5,000 extra engineers'.

    It also helps to explain the by around a year pull forward of I-Pace, both for the publicity by their friendly media, and Tata knowing that the China 2018 EV quota means major cash penalties for JLR, either from missing the 8% quota, or losing money on every unit of a ramped up production of the I-Pace, or a comination of both.

    It also helps to explain why there is so much dross, stories, articles, reviews, even more than normal, in the friendly UK and US media on JLR in the last few weeks, with the infamous 4x articles on US mag Motor Trend site last week, for a small UK company, owned by Indians, and our state broadcaster, the BBC, having on its major news bulletins prominently, on the hour and every half-hour, the '5,000 engineers, due to record volume', which was effectively fake news.

    In the end, unlike Geely cashing in on the Volvo turnaround, this IPO will be the icing of the cake of confirmation that JLR is sinking, due to the ridiculous production splurge in 2014-2016, with now 200k units/yr minimum surplus, Dieselgate, and zero PHEVs, EVs or modern/available petrols.

    This will initially be spun as 'the crowning of JLR's 'stunning success, due to Tata', but within a very short while, even the dumbest will start to ask, 'if JLR is so successful, mega profitable, and aiming for the stars, overtaking the Germans, why are you effectively selling it?', addressed to Tata.

    Tata also know there is a stock market crash, at least the order of 2008-9, long overdue.

  11. #109
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,052
    The IPO route makes sense, because although I've said for months, years that Tata has to have been working behind the scenes to get rid of "the jewel in the crown", due to knowing the real situation, chronic lack of real investment since 2008, going off a cliff sales-wise since at least the start of 2017 for Land Rover, and Jaguar 'New Gen' since 2015, the debacle of XE and XF II, and I forecast a sale to the Chinese, as the most likely candidate, a trade sale, of that kind, similar to PSA buying Opel, would have necessitated Tata opeing up the JLR books, the real books, not the fake BS offered to the public via the very dubious mediation of British big four accountancy firms.

    In plain English, a trade sale would have never worked.

    A prospectus, on the other hand, massaged and beautified by merchant bankers, as only those creeps know how, could sucker in enough mugs to possibly get this turkey off the ground, before it crashes a week later, once the banks have unloaded their selling at a premium to the IPO price stock, to the patriotic punters.

    A trade sale would have revealed a company with a huge investment deficit, haemorrhaging sales due to Dieselgate, a disastrous engine programme, Ingenium, with no prospect of the new I6 to replace the 20 year old AJ-V8 and its bastard, the 8 cylinder V6, and 'one-off' black swan events like the 2018 China e-quota, coming in flocks, with for instance tech start-ups mushrooming everywhere, making 1,000hp EVs, and a monkey of the Jaguar and JLR saviour, the $80k 400hp I-Pace, which is technically outdated at its launch.
    Last edited by BMVIrep; 20-06-17 at 12:02.

  12. #110
    Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20,187
    An IPO may be the route to go but the question is begged, when would be the best time ?

    Today we had this from the SMMT and with such dire warnings I think it would be very risky buying shares in JLR at a time when the future is so uncertain.


    Mike Hawes, SMMT Chief Executive,
    said, “We accept that we are leaving the European Union and we share the desire for that departure to be a success.

    But our biggest fear is that, in two years’ time, we fall off a cliff edge – no deal, outside the single market and customs union and trading on inferior WTO terms.

    This would undermine our competitiveness and our ability to attract the investment that is critical to future growth.
    “That’s why we have to be honest with ourselves.

    If the UK cannot secure – and implement – a bespoke and comprehensive new relationship with the EU in two years’ time, we need a back-up plan.

    Having looked at all the alternatives, we need government to seek an interim arrangement whereby we stay within the single market and customs union until that new relationship is implemented.”

    The UK automotive industry has always maintained the importance of the EU to its prosperity. The EU is by far the UK’s biggest automotive export market, taking over half our finished vehicles, four times as many as our next biggest market.

    The sector already exports to over 160 different global markets and has a consistent approach to free trade.

    It needs that trade to be tariff-free, as frictionless as possible to support the ‘just in time’ manufacturing process and with consistent regulation.





 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to top