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Any rumours about a new XFR?

15K views 38 replies 10 participants last post by  Alphacat 
#1 ·
Any ideas if Jaguar will make a new XFR any time soon? And will it still be a V8?
 
#4 ·
Well, the way XF volumes have fallen like a rock after the F-Pace and XE, it would make more sense for Jaguar to launch an XE-R first. The issue of course, is that dropping that boat anchor 10-year old S/C V8 would make the car an instant laughing stock.

Jaguar really can not sell performance cars (even the F-Type) until it gets a decent engine.
 
#5 ·
Where are you getting your stats? XF sales have not been affected by the F Pace.

The XF V8 is an industry leading engine and it isn't ten years old yet. The earlier 4.0 litre version is still used by Aston Martin, albeit bored and stroked to the limit. Indeed, the old and very fine Ford duratec 6 lives on as the Aston Martin V12 and was such a good engine when introduced it is still pretty much state of the art now.

Now the Corvette engine, that's a boat anchor.
 
#8 ·
Link for your data source please.

XF sales will be slightly impacted by XE sales, that was the whole point behind the XE design.

Total Jaguar sales reflect the increase brought on by F Pace. The XF and the F Pace do not compete with each other.
 
#10 ·
I'm not so sure about that. Of course you are right in many ways, that they are two different kinds of cars. But for someone like me, who is a Jaguar fan, the first priority would be to get a Jaguar. The styling elements of the two cars and the mechanics are very alike. I could easily be in doubt whether to choose the classic sporty saloon, or a more practical car with a higher seating position, but with the same style, image and ability to bring me swiftly and comfortably from A to B. I have actually done that once. With another brand before Jaguar, I used to drive estate cars. I did actually at one point buy a taller more SUV like car to get more practicability, and I was very much in doubt which one to choose. I can't see, why a Jaguar buyer can't have the same doubt.

P.S. Here in Denmark, which doesn't count for much I know, the XF sales for the first seven months of 2016 have been the same as for the first seven months last year. All right, a very small drop from 36 to 35 cars, but I would call that as good as the same.
 
#12 ·
XF sales ytd match total 2015 sales, indicating a likely doubling of XF sales this year. The XE is selling in the same numbers as the new XF right out of the starting gate indicating a doubling of sedan sales. The F Pace is selling about the same as XE and XF combined. Total sales penetration looks like reaching four fold over 2015. North American market figures.

So, the XF is selling in the same numbers as before the XE and F Pace were released. The XE effectively doubled the sedan sales. The F Pace doubled the sedan sales.

I'd say Jaguar is experiencing a runaway sales success. We'll see how things pan out but really, these new products represent a quantum shift in Jaguar away from the tired old "classic" market Ford misjudged so badly to a fresh new market entirely consistent with the heritage of the brand.

I am about to participate in one of Jaguar Canada's new marketing programs intended to introduce the new Jaguar image to existing Jaguar customers. I'll let you know how that turns out in due course.
 
#14 ·
YTD sales will tell you nothing. The F-Pace launched in the US in late May and the XE in June. The first month of steady state supply for all models in Jaguar's line up was August. That is why there is a Jaguar sales volume thread covering the August data, as that is likely to be the new Normal.

Jaguar XF sales in the US from January to April, before F-Pace/XE, averaged 822 vehicles/month.

Jaguar XF sales from May-August, after F-Pace and XE came on line, averaged 451 vehicles/month.

So as you can see sales of the XF pre-F-Pace/XE were 82% higher than they are now post-F-Pace/XE.
 
#15 ·
Don't give up your day job. You are lousy at statistics.

Jaguar brand sales YTD already exceed the entire 2015 by a lot.

XF sales for YTD are nearly at the level for the entire year 2015. Therefore, monthly average sales for the XF are way up.

You include one anomalous month, March 2016 a record for XF sales in fact, (wonder how that happened since the new XF wasn't on sale then), and then derive a useless and misleading number by doing so.

XE sales are increasing steadily with no negative effect on XF sales.

The only discernible effect of F Pace sales on XF and XE sales has been to increase them. Those are the facts.

Your sad attempts at number crunching are worse than meaningless.
 
#16 ·
I would think that all the positive advertising for the f-pace in the press is getting more people into jaguar dealerships who then look at the rest of the jaguar range which would help sales for all models.
 
#20 ·
My dealer confirms this is happening. The F Pace is a very big seller and if you see one it is easy to see why. Callum never does anything by halves. After reluctantly accepting JLR needed the F Pace his design team nailed it on the very first try. Watch for the new E Pace and possibly even a Cayenne sized vehicle slotted in below the RR top sellers.

Bizarre though it is the market demands these whacky vehicles. Some visitors to the show rooms seem to be switching to an XF or XE though after looking at the F Pace, sales of both sedans are up.
 
#23 ·
Another way of saying it. I'm willing to take any bets, from anyone that the XF volume for the rest of the year will be closer to 451 than 822.

Any takers?

P.S. Yes, and it was based on that single August datapoint. You are all free to run whatever complicated statistical analysis, accounting/balance sheet or legal analysis you want, before taking the other side of the bet.
 
#32 ·
A data point is simply a datum. Which was intended to be my point. I dislike invention of redundant "new" words especially when it takes two new words when one sufficed previously. Irregardless of that I am pragmatic enough to tolerate the steady degeneratin of the language as opposed to the steady improvement wrought by the likes of Shakespeare who invented a number of useful new words.
 
#34 ·
I don't think there is anything particularly "new" about data point. I remember the term from the time I studied statistics, more than 40 years ago.
The number of XE's sold in August would be a datum, as would be the individual numbers for the other models.
The month of August, as a whole, may be referred to as a data point when comparing to a trend or an accumulation of of other month's sales.

The datum for XE unit sales may also be considered as a data point when making a similar comparison.

The OED announced, a couple of days ago, that they are having to do a certain amount of revision, because a lot of that which was attributed to Shakespeare has been found to have been in common usage long before Shakespeare was born.
 
#35 ·
Apparently I excelled at first year university statistics but I have no recollection of the term "datapoint". Mind you I have only a dim recollection of the Bell normal curve and that only because it was applied to grades awarded in law school.

As for Shakespeare's contribution to the lexicon I encourage the oed in their inquiries. Good luck nailing it down.

Just btw t'anks for bolstering my argument that our dear Baron was attempting a statistical calculation by using a term of art in that field. He performed the calculation incorrectly if his intent was to support his argument. His error tends to prove the opposite of that postulated. Actually, he claims that his calculation proves that which one assumes he intended merely to hypothesize.
 
#37 ·
I hope, for the sake of the brand, that Jaguar does not hang the obsolete, tall like Mount Everest, over the front "axle" of the XF or XE to make the XFR and XER.

That is what they did on the F-type, a car that finished last or one better than last is all the sports/drivers car evaluations. A car that is nose heavy, and has a nose as high as many SUVs.

Lets hope that Jaguar has access to an engine of proper proportions, that can be mounted behind the front "axle" as it is on Corvette, Aston Martin, Mercedes GT, Ferrari F12 - all balanced cars, with long, low, sleek hood lines, and no more than 50% of the weight on the front tires (Vs 54%+ for the F-type).

I know, I'm bound to be disappointed. But I hope someone at Jaguar stops the R cars from being the laughing stock of the automotive industry.
 
#38 · (Edited)
'Any rumours?' We don't need rumours, we know facts.

Fact: Jaguar will only launch a new XFR if its performance is at least in the same postcode as the German 3.

Fact: the benchmark for performance is the new Mercedes-AMG E63 S 4Matic+ - see below.

Fact: nominally it has 612PS, against 575PS for Jaguar's current highest tune state of the AJ-V8; actually it has at least 650PS, as shown by the acceleration data of the E63 S, and the Sport Auto record N'ring laptime for the '585PS' GT R, with the same 4-litre V8.

Fact: JLR cannot make the 20 year old AJ-V8 generate ~650PS reliably, and with ~200g CO2/km

Thus, not rumour, the new XFR will not happen, because it cannot happen - QED.

Fact: It, a new XFR, can only happen when JLR has a new V8. That will not happen, as disclosed by the UK press' attempt to hide the fact that no new JLR 'Ingenium' or otherwise V8 exits and JLR have approached BMW to buy theirs, either the current 4.4-litre V8 or a mooted circa 2018- brand new 4-litre V8.

Fact: If a new XFR eventually appears, it will be 2018 or later, and it will come with a BMW V8, by which time the whole company(JLR) might be sold, due to overwhelming demands for spending on genuine new platforms, RDE-compliant diesels, autonomous driving etc..

from Germancarforums.com:

'Another video on the acceleration but this one is timed and it[Merc-AMG E63 S 4Matic+]'s totally insanely fast:

0-60km/h - 1.2sec
0-80km/h - 2.2sec
0-100km/h - 3.0sec
0-120km/h - 4.0sec
0-140km/h - 5.0sec
0-160km/h - 6.1sec
0-180km/h - 8.0sec
0-200km/h - 10.0sec'



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvnfDrRZBLk
 
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