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Jaguar XE MY2020 facelift

8K views 20 replies 7 participants last post by  BMVIrep 
#1 ·
The MY2020 facelift of the Jaguar XE has just been revealed. I imagine it's for the Geneva Auto Show, since everybody seems to be revealing new car models. If we forget all the talk about the problems for JLR at the moment, I must say, I really like it. I think it looks good. I like the more rounded grill and the new rear lights. I like, that it's being brought more up-to-date with technology like full LED rear lights and LED headlights. It was embarrassing with old fashioned light bulbs in the rear. There are also practical solutions like wireless phone charging, Apple CarPlay and other things that will be appreciated in day to day use. It also seems to be going upmarket. The manual gearbox and cloth seats are gone, and so are several engine choices. There seems to be only the 180 PS diesel and the 250 and 300 PS petrol engines. All 4 cylinder 2.0 liters. And most importantly: If a facelift of the XE is shown, the XF is bound to follow shortly.

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#2 · (Edited)
The MY2020 facelift of the Jaguar XE has just been revealed.
What happened to the comprehensive update, almost redesign, that I'm sure was trailed a year or so ago?

Just new bumpers - the easiest thing to do because plastic. The bootlid has had a small change, for the dip in the rear light, and a crease mark, but this is aluminium or composite.

Personally, I think the 'new' car looks older. The integrity as it was of the 2014 car has been messed up, especially in the lower front and rear aprons. The car now looks even more mid noughties, 10 to 15 years off the pace. It looks more and more like a Ford Fusion/Mondeo, which itself is still fundamentally a 2007 car.

BUT, the huge story is surely the engines. Two things:

1. what happened to the Ingenium mild hybrids? Why aren't they in this XE facelift? Surely if they're 'live', as shown by the now months ago Evoque II, which supposedly has them, why aren't they in the XE? Something's gone wrong?

2. where's the Ingenium I6? Again, it's supposedly already been launched, so why hasn't it been read across here? Something gone wrong? Vapourware - in the RR Sport HST - for PR purposes?

I'm sure the defenders will say 'it doesn't fit'. The 2013 RR Sport is essentially the same car as the XE, as the XF II, F-Pace etc. They're all on the 2009/2003 XJ's platform - 'PLA', 'iQAl' etc.

The XE has a huge, disproportionately long bonnet, for its 4.7m overall length, courtesy of being a cut down XJ.

BMW* can fit its I6 into the similar length 3-Series, so why can't JLR fit its brand new I6 into the XE?

If it existed, was ready to go, it would be a no-brainer, surely. A 400hp XE would at least revive the 'Jaguar'-ness, and take the fight to the new M340i and C43 AMG.

* it can also of course fit its latest I6 petrol, the 'B58', in the smaller RWD 1- and 2- Series, and the outgoing M3's 'S55' I6 in the M2 Competition.


PS fitting just the Ingenium 2-litre I4 into the facelifted XE is a disaster, as shown by this comparison by home-team Auto Express:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/porsche/macan/106118/porsche-macan-vs-jaguar-f-pace

The Ingenium I4 petrol is outputting around 25% less than stated/claimed - 180-190 PS for the 250 PS '25t'.

A near £50k 4-cylinder F-Pace or £40k bog standard XE, with real performance similar to a £20k mid range Golf, with 150 PS, is not going to bring the punters flocking back.

It's a disgrace. Let's cal it what it is.

The Ingenium is a disaster. Vibration killed it - built too light, to compensate for the obese vehicles.

Speth knew this in 2013 at the lastest. Rather than kill it, and lose all that taxpayer money, we now 6 years later arrive at the postion of a 'Jag' having a 4-pot with less power than a £25k VAG 2-litre econobox.

This is why JLR is dead. Engines killed it, as I've said. Speth should be strung up for this huge, single decision - to plough on with this garbage, failed engine.

He ruined everything. He should have taken the hit, the ~£1bn in lost taxpayer money for the Ingenium engine in total, and gone and bought BMW's, VAG's, or Ford's engines.
 
#3 ·
The facelifted XE, and XF if it is on the way, needs to overcome the hostility of the Diesel engine.
Jaguar can insist that the Ingenium diesel is the cleanest ever but the fact remains that VW did for the diesel and I doubt that Jaguar’s faith will be shared across Europe.
In addition to the rejection by the public of Diesel engines there is a rejection of saloons in favour of crossover/SUVs.
 
#4 ·
The facelifted XE, and XF if it is on the way, needs to overcome the hostility of the Diesel engine.
Jaguar can insist that the Ingenium diesel is the cleanest ever but the fact remains that VW did for the diesel and I doubt that Jaguar’s faith will be shared across Europe.
- so where's the mild hybrid? The Evoque's supposedly getting it/them, so what's happened?

Come on @Jag SM, you said the XE was getting was 'a major update/facelift'. All that's happened is they've slashed the engine offering.

Ingenium mild hybrid - eulogy: 'was never long for this world. In fact, never born. Was just a twinkle in a PR man's eye, and a £500m hole in a taxpayer's pocket'.
 
#7 ·
So the V6 petrol XE is no more, after the facelift. But the US market desperately needs a high power, large engine option, to fight the M340i, C43 AMG etc.

So what does this tell us? Surely it tells us that if the Ingenium I6 existed, in standard, mild hybrid, whatever form and version, it would have gone into the facelift.

So, either the Ingenium I6 doesn't exist, or there's a major problem with it, stopping it from being made.

I posit that the major problem is that it doesn't work.

Like the I4, its real power output will be so poor, around 300 versus 400 Ps claimed for the hybrid version, that JLR just can't release it, especially when it's up against the excellence of something like the M340i, at aropund £47k, which JLR hasn't a hope of meeting anyway, given its production costs at i54 and Castle Bromwich, versus BMW's million units type econmies of scale for their 'B58' I6 and G30 3-Series over 6/7 years.

JLR, like all British automakers post war, has been laid low by engines. They cost a fortune, and even then there's no guarantee of success.

Rover found a GM reject, the Buick V8, and saved themselves - imagine the 1970 Range Rover without that V8.

Jaguar Cars, pre and post privatisation, was crippled by its off the pace engines, the post 1973 gas-guzzling V12, and the more powerful, more fuel efficient engines, the 'M30' I6 and so on, from the likes of BMW.

Ford saved the day with the 1996 AJ-V8.

No one has ridden in to save Tata's JLR, and its awful engines.

Forget the I-Pace and Cropley's fairy dust, what JLR needed was BMW's engines in 2013.

It's too late now.
 
#9 ·
LOL

Cheers
- I think that sums up JLR engineering. Hic.

This 'facelift' hasn't touched the suspension, the steering, the brakes, the gearbox, other than dropping the manual, the engines, other than dropping the V6 petrol and lower tuned 4-cyl. versions, nor hardly the bodywork, other than a possible tiny change to the bootlid.

Obviously, even to the most brain dead JLR fanboys, the original purpose and intention of this mid life lift, planned we're told since 2015, early 2016, was to put in the trailed since 2016 mild hybrid Ingeniums, either 3-cylinder, 4-cylinder, or both, and to finally pension off the petrol V6, especially since Ford will stop making it the end of this year, if not sooner, and put in the Ingenium straight six.

Now we're told that 'it'll be released later', 'rolled out later - all planned'.

JLR and its media mates have been trailing the Ingenium I6 since 2013.

How long does it take to make a new JLR engine? 7 years? WWII was fought in 6.

Come on, grow up. If it existed, it would have been launched. Not in the 2019/2020MY XE, but in the XF II, possibly XE.

Speth knew in 2013 it was a dud - Ingenium is modular. The I4, both diesel and petrols, were known duds dy then, so the I6 was going to be too.

Speth went shopping, and failed.

The I6 has been covered up since. It doesn't work - too low power, too high vibration/no smoothness, too high fuel consumption.

Launching in the Facelift XE would have exposed it directly to the 'B58' Bimmer engine, which would have ripped it a new one - as everyone knows.

JLR, even with 100% of the media behind it, couldn't pull that off, such a turkey against such an excellent engine/car.

JLR has, I believe, decided to:

- bin the Ford-supplied V6
- try to make XE, XF and co live on, on just 4 cylinders
- get the media to obscure as much as possible this fact
- then, er... pray

- actually, kid on, using Cropley and co, 'fairy dust etc', that Jag's future is EV anyway, and ICEs, whether I4, !6, V8, don't matter anymore; so the I6 Ingenium's no-show is moot anyway.

BUT, I don't see how they get Land Rover to this EV/'MLA' future, without a particulate filter, certified, 'ULEV20' or whatever V6 and V8, for their huge, heavy SUVs.

You can't sell 50k of RR Sports and full fats in the US each year with 4-cylinder PHEVs, at $100k+, when the competition, like Porsche, is doing six-cylinder, much more powerful PHEVs, with greater range etc.

So, it's either actually they are praying, or they're about to announce a V8 supply deal with BMW - 'Project Jennifer'.

Personally, I think it's the former, prayer, as BMW has moved on itself to killing off anything above 6 cylinders, and is concentrating on iNext EV etc.

Speth and his lieutenants must be hoping/expecting that before all this engine malarkey, disastrous situation really hits the fan of public knowledge - 'where did all the Ingenium public money go, to what purpose? etc - that either JLR will have been sold by Tata to the Chinese, or they will have retired - Callum goes this year, 65, and Speth is due in 12 months or so.

That's 'The Plan', guys.
 
#10 ·
Sorry Guys but my “Mole” did not get this right but I did ask “yes or no” that the facelifed XE was cancelled as part of the cost saving measures now in place at JLR. Perhaps longer term the replacement for the XE will not happen.
 
#11 ·
no problem. It's much ado about nothing anyway.

Autocar trying to cover its client's embarrassment, obfuscating why the I6 Ingenium hasn't appeared:

Jaguar Land Rover has just released a new inline six-cylinder petrol engine in the Range Rover Sport, but with the XE S axed due to slow sales it remains to be seen whether that engine will return to the larger models.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/big-updates-jaguar-xf-and-f-pace-follow-new-xe

- they're trying to imply that the Ingenium I6 no-showed because there was no point - 'slow sales of large engine petrol saloons'.

Yes, but that's the UK. What explains the no-show of the Ingenium I6 in the US?

F'ing weasels are having a hard time covering for their master's mistakes.

Just come clean, like Speth should have done in 2013, and say the I6 is no more, because: '4-cylinder mild hybrids and PHEVs can cover 80-90% of customers, and EVs on the new 'MLA' platform will take over the high power, high price offering from 2020'.

No charge for the free press release.
 
#19 ·
This will decimate the 'new' XE:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/3-series/106192/new-bmw-330e-2019-review

Crucially, it starts under £40k for private buyers, and for business drivers its BiK is 16% for 2019/20, versus 30% for the most efficient diesel XE, with the 4% 'RDE Step 2' discount of 4% included.

So around £2,000 less company car tax(40% taxpayer) for the plug-in 3-Series versus an XE 180PS 20d SE(£36k list price).

Plus, the 330e is a far faster, far better car.

JLR should have stuck a fork in the XE around 2017.
 
#21 ·
Best car in the world:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-revie...ives/bmw-3-series-320d-m-sport-2019-uk-review

- and best motive source in the real world, BMW's ICEs, whether diesel or petrol:

330i, 2-litre petrol, 0-60 mph in 5.5 seconds, braking of a supercar, and real-world mid 30s mpg - astonishing:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de...ia-bmw-330i-sport-limousine/technische-daten/

And are we really saying diesel is dead when this one can deliver such performance combined with over 50 genuine mpg in absolutely normal out-of-town driving with genuinely low CO2? It makes no sense to me.
And also another sign that the JLR reins are being loosened at Haymarket Media, in anticipation of needing new clients, with this gushing - rightly - review.

The new 3-Series is in a different universe to the XE. BMW managers were shocked by what they found at Rover Group in the mid 90s, but boy would there be fears for mass heart attacks if someone from the Quandt family was stupid enough to go near the Jewel in the Crown/English Patient again, 25 years, tens of billlions of investment deficit and further debased engineering competence on.
 
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